Ukraine, Russia, and the West

I think it’s going to be a full occupation. You need to think about the big picture. This whole thing was planned out in advance. Occupying territory that’s already occupied by Russian-friendly forces is a thing you grab as a target of opportunity, not the goal for a buildup like this.

I was naively hopeful earlier ITT that Ukraine could put up some kind of fight, but everything I’ve read says they’re going to get wiped, hard.

The real question is why would Putin prefer to not have a puppet government in Kyiv rather than having it? I can’t think of a good reason. Concern about being overstretched occupying the whole country, but doubt Putin thinks that way. In particular, I doubt the West will be willing to bankroll/arm an insurgency against an occupation, so there’s less prospect of it turning into Afghanistan. (And to be clear, we should absolutely not be supporting an insurgency.)

ukraine is a lot better prepared than ’14.

1 Like

https://twitter.com/brianmfloyd/status/1496665338619916293?s=21

2 Likes

Maybe this will get the weakling western European countries to take defense more seriously.

Putin invaded Georgia for 12 days, invaded and annexed Crimea. None of this is surprising.

Yet western Europe needs his gas and they don’t have meaningful army capabilities.

If America #1 sends troops across the ocean one more time these Euros are gonna go back to hiding behind momma’s skirt.

Do Europe’s job for them again?

I’m still hoping, just not believing. :frowning:

Metaculus has Russians in Kyiv as a small favorite:

eu has plenty of military capacity. in total it’s almost 2 million service members. it’s like 80% of us ranks.

next in that thread

1 Like

It’s what David Sklansky would refer to as throwing your steering wheel out the window while playing a game of chicken.

1 Like

Yet all I see are Europeans waiting for Biden to do something.

Germany, france, england have been silent like lambs. None of the 3 western euro powers will do shit while Putin takes 1/3 of Ukraine.

I don’t see them mobilizing troops, tanks, ships, planes.

I just noticed this as I’m tracking a flight to go pick someone up. Pretty wild seeing all the southerly route with a ton of flights bunched up, but I also don’t have an idea what it normally looks like

I don’t don’t really know anything about military strategy but after thinking about it some more, I agree. At first I thought some of the surrounding forces might be there just to keep Ukrainian forces from moving to help in the separatist areas. But he has to go all the way as he can’t tolerate ongoing attacks from outside those areas and the only way to prevent them is to force surrender of the Ukrainian military.

Damn this thought depresses me.

War has begun

https://twitter.com/paulsonne/status/1496679080586063874?s=21

Apparently Putin is speaking rn? Saying he won’t occupy Uktraine. Only demilitarize.

Didn’t the man say he wasn’t going to invade?

Edit thanks bobman. Maybe we can take his word for it this time.

I mean demilitarisation impossible without occupation you’d think.

1 Like

https://twitter.com/samagreene/status/1496679033710518272?s=20&t=TtqqAbygj6q6c07eZEDNXQ

I was told Russians wouldn’t tolerate obvious lies

6 Likes
1 Like

Explosions in Kiev live on CNN

https://twitter.com/Copernicus2013/status/1496679841839599616