Yeah and I’d echo Keed’s point. The redline is already there in that there are countries within NATO.
But like Zikzak’s been saying, there are and have always been red lines around nukes. Maybe they need to be reiterated and clarified sometimes I dunno. Even you agree the West should respond if Putin launches a tactical nuke (edit: well never mind - see nuke thread). That’s a red line. We’re just arguing about what the West’s reaction should if Putin crosses the red line.
We really do have another thread for the nuke stuff guys. I’m trying not to talk about it here, but am just responding to others. I’m not going to bring it up again itt if I can help it.
Ha, sick troll (sorry if posted already).
3 Likes
Not responding militarily to any of the territorial aggression of the Soviet Union - Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Afghanistan - did not lead to the Soviet Union attacking NATO, it led to eventual detente and the dismantling of the Soviet Union. It is just unfortunate that the opportunity to turn Russia into a functioning country was then squandered. This attitude of “welp direct confrontation is inevitable so might as well get it over with” remains as wrong and dangerous now as it was during the real Cold War.
And red lines aren’t based on just being like “I DECLARE RED LINE!” and everyone has to act like you mean it. If Putin said “stop sanctioning my economy or nukes” the West is going to be like “uh huh, sure. nuke away”. The credibility or lack thereof of threats is based around the actual value of what is being fought over to both sides. If something is worth $1,000 to me and $1 to you, I know you are not actually going to tolerate the same level of risk to get it that I will.
Edit: And in the case of the Baltics, what would be at stake is the NATO alliance itself, which is the entire mechanism by which Russia is restrained. If the US were willing to throw that away then it would be clear evidence that there aren’t any red lines in Europe, really.
2 Likes
lol the Saudis not taking Biden’s calls is pretty gangster.
1 Like
Time for the US to toss the Saudis to the side of the road and form an alliance with Iran.
3 Likes
(moved to nuclear thread)
Invent time travel.
https://twitter.com/Michael1Sheldon/status/1501362495721811968
https://twitter.com/Michael1Sheldon/status/1501365325111177223
https://twitter.com/michaeldweiss/status/1501294460981948418
Not sure if this guy knows what he’s talking about, but he seems to.
Oh good, was about to say we should nuke anyone making 42 tweet threads
What if 1930s Japan provides a useful model for predicting how Putin will act?
1 Like
Poland should just give the MiG’s to Russia. Ukrainian farmers will be towing them to airstrips within the week.
9 Likes
What could be used to incentivize Putin to withdraw from conflict that doesn’t inadvertently encourage future invasion efforts? Can’t just be removal of sanctions, not juicy enough.
Just think Putin knows his military is being exposed as way less elite than he wants the world to believe & that this war effort isn’t sustainable long term for myriad reasons. Think he wants an out, and think he’d be unlikely to try again at attacking neighbors given current invasion’s floundering nature.
But what to offer I have no idea, and how to make sure you don’t create incentive for future invasion gestures for the sake of prize offerings I also don’t know.
I wonder how realistic picture Putin is getting of how it’s going.
1 Like