Trans Issues In Sports/Society

Nah man. I understand it just fine. You going hard on some ultra nitty semantic point on the nature of objectivity so that you can ignore the actual issue. Well done!

Well, sure given your thoughts on the nature of objectivity, it’s pretty much all feels.

Doesn’t mean that it isn’t possible for feels not to make sense. For example, if you were to say “Punching myself in the dick hurts a lot, but I like doing it”. Sure, those are your feels, but they don’t make sense. Objectively (the way most people use the word).

Pretty sure what he’s saying is that if it has been scientifically shown that there is no physical advantage and that it’s beneficial for their mental health, then the only counter argument must be based on feels. Otherwise, present evidence for the other side

Clovis would take issue with this post.

[Repeat entire conversation I had with Melkerson]

Anyone who has more than a mild opinion about trans men in sports, who is not currently competing in said sport, is just using it as an excuse to hate trans people. It’s a fake issue 99.99999% of people are using as cover for good old fashioned hate.

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You aren’t going to reach people’s hearts with rhetoric like this.

To be fair that’s basically wishy washy for Clovis8. Usually it would be 100.0000% and you are the biggest moron ever to grace the universe if you do not agree.

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I don’t think this is true. There are many parents who simply don’t want their 12 year old cis daughter being ran into full speed by a 12 year old trans girl. Is it a legitimate concern? I honestly don’t know. But it’s not necessarily a hate for trans people

Slavery wasn’t stopped by reaching people’s hearts either.

Someone tries to stop a kid playing soccer and bullies them out of school then I think massed artillery is a proportionate response.

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This isn’t a new playbook. It’s the exact same one used in the 80s and 90s to pretend there was some deep social question about gay people having basic human rights.

It’s the same exact playbook. I am past playing their game and pretending there is some significant existential social issue where none exists.

This is an issue that affects what, a few hundred people in North America, yet the right had successfully turned it into a central political question of our time!

Why are we playing along.

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I’m not sure who you are replying to since that doesn’t speak to anything I posted.

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My apologies. That was supposed to be in response to @clovis8 and his remark about it all being about hatred towards trans people

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I don’t think this contradicts what I posted.

If you’re saying it’s too late, then I don’t disagree. I’m willing to stand in front of these fools, even if I don’t ever reach the understanding that some of you may have.

When was it ever not going to be that way if we already decided that every single person who doesn’t understand is completely irredeemable?

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Being assigned to sports division x and not sports division y is not a question of basic human rights.

I also don’t think that.

Slavery is actually a great example.

It was both the abolitionists winning the moral argument and the artillery that got rid of slavery.

There are tons of people that can be convinced, and generally that’s best done with empathy and story telling and real examples.

At the same time we need to tell some people to fuck right off and to leave the damn kids alone.

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Did you read this the first time around?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/interactive/2024/trans-sports-girls-florida-bans/

It’s a tough but essential read.

After you’ve read that. Also worth looking at this

https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-human-rights

I think this girl was denied about 8 of these rights

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All of the armed officer, police being involved, etc etc is the kind of obvious right wing insanity I would expect from Florida but I think you would need to do a lot of twisting to argue that simply ruling her ineligible for girls volleyball violates any of those basic human rights.

True, but if my grandma had wheels she’d be a bicycle.

There isn’t a world where kids are simply excluded from sports with a rule and that all that happens.

The discrimination is inherent. It requires publicly outing people. It requires embarrassing testing. Or doctors looking at peoples genitalia. Or the press discussing whether a certain runner or a certain boxer has a penis and a vagina.

It requires excluding kids from the same social and cultural stuff that their peers get. It requires treating them differently to their peers.

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Well said. And all those consequences are the actual point of course.

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Heres a hypothetical that does touch on human rights.

Lets say Melk is right and that science shows that transitioning hormonally does affect the size/strength advantage of a trans female. By requiring that in order for them to play sports they must play on a mens team, are we not subjecting them to the exact thing that transphobes claim they are afraid of happening to their daughters if a trans female plays on female teams? Except in this direction its a whole team of men throwing around their genetically larger muscles at a single trans player who does not have the same size/strength advantage of the men on the team?

Does the trans person not have the same human right to safety while playing sports that those who insist they should not play on female teams want for their female children?

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