I made an assumption about clovis’s post. One he has confirmed was correct. Your post was immediately to point out how that would ruin women’s tennis. No one is advocating for men to be allowed to play women’s sports. Not even clovis.
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Fwiw the Utah’s very republican gov response was far superior to any post i’ve seen here, as a compassioned view of this subject instead of whatever some people posted here.
Four kids, and only one of them playing girls sports. That’s what all of this is about. Four kids who aren’t dominating or winning trophies or taking scholarships. Four kids who are just trying to find some friends and feel like they are a part of something. Four kids trying to get through each day. Rarely has so much fear and anger been directed at so few. I don’t understand what they are going through or why they feel the way they do. But I want them to live. And all the research shows that even a little acceptance and connection can reduce suicidality significantly. For that reason, as much as any other, I have taken this action in the hope that we can continue to work together and find a better way. If a veto override occurs, I hope we can work to find ways to show these four kids that we love them and they have a place in our state.
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Clovis is saying the only thing that should be considered is gender identity? Which is self professed, purely.
A sincere trans woman who hasn’t had hormone therapy shouldn’t be playing on the woman’s tour imo. It’s not fair physically, and the current WTA testosterone regulations address that.
And since gender identity is purely self professed and there’s huge sums of money involved, you can’t dismiss insincere bad actors. The top women can win tens of millions in prize money. The current WTA regulations take care of that as well, but Clovis’ proposed policy does not.
You literally just posted “people choose to be gay”.
You are better than this. Just stop man.
no he didn’t. you are doing some really bad posting here that is harmful to anyone who takes this topic seriously (from both ends - showing how this is a non issue in reality and that the current regulations are sufficient).
you had a really good read when you didn’t want to debate it. stick to it.
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Here is a hint.
People no more choose their gender identity (lol self professed) than gay people choose their sexual identity.
It’s just hateful stupidity. Period. Nothing more.
I’ll actually check out now. This is not going to go anywhere good.
No one argued that. You are just using right-wing talking point if you claim that only gender identity is enough to compete in professional women sports. Don’t be a rwnj clovis, you are better than that.
Learn about the subject before you post. This isn’t like you man.
A person with XX chromosomes. Biological male = XY. Is the term biological taboo now?
There are over 1000 posts ITT. I realize I’m not breaking new ground. I’m simply asked for true/false, yes/no on questions I’ve only heard answers from the side that disagrees with trans women in sports. If you don’t feel up to the task of answering them, then simply scroll past
I’m not trying to dunk on clovis, but @WichitaDM do you see how these type of posts plays into the hands of the right wing?
The topic is “trans women in sports”.
The right wing nut jobs answer is : “omg trans athletes will dominate professional sports winning millions because all it takes is to say you identify as a woman and you win the gold medal”
The non rwnj answer should be “this is a complete non issue as can be seen by the lack of any significiant domination or participation by trans athletes in women sports. Even if it was an issue, all the governing bodies already addressed it with more-or-less acceptable rules. Amateur sports is much more about community and acceptance to begin with”.
Clovis answer plays exactly to their hands and is not uncommon by people who kneejerk this.
Yeah no shit. Not what I was saying at all.
It’s not quite that simple, you can verify this for yourself on wikipedia.
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We call that “JAQing off” FYI.
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First off I agree with this paragraph with maybe a sprinkling of “trans inclusivity is more important than sportsball regardless” on top.
I think clovis’s heart is in the right place. Maybe the post that triggered the last 20 was a bit unclear of their exact thoughts on all this. I just disagree that clovis is saying that men should be allowed to play women’s sports. That’s what would actually provide ammo to the right wing nut jobs. Also who really cares about that anyways. Those people are going to blather on regardless of what clovis says.
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I’m 100% sure clovis heart is in the right place.
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I was simply saying that Clovis’ proposed policy wouldn’t have much of a way to stop this, while the more considered WTA policy does.
If you look within the last forty posts, you will see links exploring how thoroughly debated and debunked your starting concepts are. You not exploring those before asking these questions gives the impression you are not approaching this in good faith, even if you are. I am just being honest about the impression it gives me.
These topics have been debated to death. Regardless of your sincerity, referring to a “biological woman” shows you are starting from a position of dangerous ignorance.
I mean that. The term “biological woman” contributes to women like me getting abused by posters like Rivaldo and in other cases literally killed. What justifies this new version of separate but equal? Just because a person can say I had what qualifies as a trans medical obstacles?
I didn’t ask for my parents put me through trans conversion therapy. I didn’t ask to have trans experiences where people would ever think to describe me vs another woman as biological.
Seriously, this is not just offensive. Those terms empower the death of trans people AND cisgender people who are merely perceived as trans AND intersex people who don’t fit any binary and were traumatized by childhood surgery forcibly converting them to one gender or another. I didn’t ask for any of the awful shit my parents put me through to try to convert me into a boy. That’s not my fault. I shouldn’t be punished and treated as a non biological woman just because my existence doesn’t make sense to you.
Using chromosomes to determine who is a “real” woman is going to put you in direct opposition to all of the cisgender, trans, intersex, and non binary people who don’t fit that criteria.
To me, it’s okay to say you don’t know enough to have an opinion on a topic and need to do a lot of listening before the comments or questions you think to pose wouldn’t cause more harm than good.
Listening in this case can mean exploring your questions through recent posts and links.
Please sit down.
Thank you.
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I don’t spend nearly the time on internet forums as some of you and never heard the term. Just looked it up and fair enough. That pretty much is what I’m doing. Not for any nefarious purpose, but to quickly engage to get answers I’m unclear about. For instance, I feel I can make a pretty good argument for what’s wrong with a trans 19 yo trans woman competing in women’s tennis and I’m trying to find good arguments for why it’s okay
I’ve heard (and I so far see nothing wrong) with a distinction between gender and sex. That is, someone born with XY chromosomes can identify as female, but is it scientifically accurate to say they are biologically female (I honestly don’t know)?
Specifically how have I been “trolling the thread?”
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I feel like we’re in firm how-are-YOU-gonna-make-a-video-about-peeing-on-people territory, but I’m willing to keep having this conversation if you want.
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