The NCAA for example already has very strict rules on what trans women have to do to be allowed to participate in women’s sports. Again this has already been covered ad nauseum in this thread and the people who keep posting BUT ACKSHUALLY WOMENS TENNIS WOULD BE RUINED are the morons here.
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Read the post I’m responding to dipshit
Your point is a strawman. I doubt Clovis is saying actual men should be playing in the Womens US Open. Trans women aren’t men and your entire premise is ignorant and flawed.
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He said the only criteria is their desire to participate. Yes it’s an absurd and unserious thing to say, that’s what I’m pointing out. Does Clovis mean what he said? Fucken ask him, I don’t know.
Quoting what he actually said isn’t a straw man though.
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I was assuming he was referring to trans women as that is what this thread is about. Maybe I am wrong. I mean as near as I can tell the governing bodies for women’s sports have rules and regulations for what trans women have to do to compete. So what exactly is the problem here? Some high level mens tennis player in college couldn’t just suddenly decide to start playing women’s sports today. That isn’t how any of this works.
I know that isn’t how it works. The WTA has a very developed and considered policy. That’s the whole fucking point. If their only criteria was an expressed desire for inclusion it would be a disaster. It isn’t so it’s not.
yes they have and those rules are fine by me as an ignorant person on the subject, but they might not be fine by trans athletes who aren’t allowed to compete via these rules. not sure what your point is though, it seems not well thought out. the only person i can think of that was anti women in sports in this thread was riverman.
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Lol I know you are smart enough to know I obviously mean people who identify as the applicable gender.
This is exactly why I have no desire to debate this. It’s not a debate.
For those too dumb to know what I so obviously meant I’ll clarify.
The only criteria that matters for a persons inclusion in a sport is their desire to be included and their gender identity.
but your take isn’t accepted by a single competitive sport body. not NCAA, not olympics, not anyone. So instead of going to the extreme radical (and somewhat ignorant) position you posted maybe educate yourself on the current criteria of different bodies and discuss them.
If you have no clue what the discussion is, don’t join. But you are doing a disservice to the community you think you’re helping. I promise you they rather you don’t post that. Your post plays exactly to the hands of those who are manufcaturing this non existent issue.
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So none of the other factors that the current WTA policy considers, like maximum testosterone levels? Just if the athlete identifies as a woman and want to be included?
But some of those concerns are easily addressable and their "fears’, even if you think they are stupid, are enhanced by people who don’t care about sports and post dumb stuff like the one i was refering to.
Only RM wrote something like “fuck don’t let those people play with my kids”. The rest were probably ignorant as to the current fairly strict regulation that already exists.
I agree with you fwiw. I think the rules are mostly fair and inclusive to some extent towards trans women in the NCAA for example. I think I was giving clovis the benefit of the doubt that he meant trans women when he talked about people who wanted to be included in women’s sports.
Which is exactly my point. People shouldn’t come in a thread like this and JAQ off without even having the first idea about the facts surrounding the issue. It is insensitive to people who are actually affected by trans issues amongst us.
Charitable towards Clovis and reflexively vicious towards me.
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I probably think you are a better poster than most here man. This issue is just enormous frustrating seeing as how even the left isn’t really in agreement on it. If I misunderstood your point I apologize.
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people JAQ about every subject. I don’t think any post you quoted is super insensitive. Again, i remember one post that clearly matches that criteria but those you just posted are people asking questions that can be answered and are answered by the governing bodies.
And fwiw the reason they don’t know it is becasue the issue is nearly non existent in competitive sport.
I think the brick wall is easy to step around. “I don’t believe you have a legitimate concern about women’s sports. You’ve never attended a women’s sporting event, and have never spoken about it prior to this moment. I believe each governing sports institution should make the rules that best aligns with their sport’s needs. Anything other than that are right wing talking points used to try to hurt trans people, both athletes and non athletes.”
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It’s this and also because of the media narrative in the center/right in the US. I completely agree this is a mostly made up issue meant to trigger people’s sense of fairness. Also there is the fact that no one here (or elsewhere) gives a fuck about womens college swimming (or mens). Like what percentage of people could say who the 2021 women’s college swimming championship school was? It has to be approaching zero.
That is my point. People use this topic as a way to take shots at trans people and to undermine the real issue which is equal rights for trans people to things like medical care. If you are a trans person in this community I imagine that doesn’t feel great. It also can embolden people like Rivaldo to make actual attacks on trans members here.
My point is that when there is big money involved in women’s sports there has to be testing, rules and standards. It can’t just be well if you say you identify as a woman then you can participate. Some mediocre asshole man tennis player would lie and win three million dollars and bagel fourteen straight sets to win the us open. And of course there currently are such rules, tests, and standards.
If you didn’t think that was my point then what did you think I was saying?