So to sum up your argument, someone who was AFAB and transitions to male including hormonal therapy, should still compete in what we currently know as women’s sports? Someone who was AMAB and transitions to female including hormonal therapy, should still compete in what we currently know as men’s sports?
I mean you know the answer to this, can we skip the Socratic dialogue and get to what your response is?
To spell it out slowly and painfully, if trans women who went through puberty as a male have a substantial advantage over women who didn’t (which is the assumption I’m operating under here, otherwise it doesn’t matter) then it’s unfair for other women to have to compete against those people.
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Kind of. There really are no more men’s and women’s sports. But, yes, the Y’s are mostly men and the no Y’s are mostly women.
Also they would still have to make sure not to violate anti-doping rules. Presumably those would still exist. It is possible that their hormonal therapy could put them in violation of those rules (which are also currently enforced for all cisgender athletes).
I think we might have different ideas of what it means to be “dominant” in a sport.
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And this is where you admit that it’s just your transphobic personal biases governing all of this.
I was actually waiting for Meb to bring up this objection, but he never actually did. That’s actually a separate issue and one that is harder to overcome because you are going to have to weigh two very different things. We probably should have had you do this instead of Meb
What are your thoughts on puberty blockers? In general how would you describe your feelings and beliefs on how people are able to acquire them and whether you think the current system is too lenient on prescribing them
Why is it fair for long distance runners to have to compete against runners who trained at high altitude during puberty?
Nah, I’m aware of that too. Was more interested in just watching you twist yourself in knots to justify your hateful views.
Is just that what you say when you run out of coherent stuff to write?
I think you’re so twisted up you don’t know who is twisted.
Sure, you were aware, but it just slipped your mind I guess.
LOL you. Good talk.
The crux of the issue is that people think it isn’t transphobic or anti-science to say “trans women aren’t women, but I say live and let live and show respect as long as you’re not taking anything from our real women. Also I am not chauvinistic.”
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@moderators feel free to ban me, but allowing this sort of hateful shit to be posted on what is supposed to be a liberal forum is an embarrassment.
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I think you’ve discovered the cheat code. Just assert that anyone attempting to discuss this who has a different view from you is a transphobic asshole and declare victory.
FFS, man. Even I said up front I don’t think that the Y chromosome thing was a good idea. Feel free to scroll back and check. You really should consider working on reading better. Then after that, maybe try working on expressing your thoughts more coherently.
Does the last part of your statement follow naturally from what comes before it. In other words, if we determine that a potential sports competitor has an “unfair” advantage, then they should not be allowed to participate?
If so, can we define “unfair” in an objective and concise way?
I really don’t think you should apologize. This is a fucking difficult topic and it’s nice to have a place to discuss it. Sure tensions are going to run high. That’s expected. After all, internet posting is serious business. And as bad as this is, I’d guess it’s a hell of a lot better than most places on the interwebs where this stuff is discussed.
I think having the discussion (as uncomfortable as it has been) is far better than just ignoring it and getting along. I’ve definitely thought a lot more about the issue in the last few days and while I don’t have great answers, I have definitely learned some stuff.
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It’s transphobic to devise a system of participation in sports that specifically excludes transgender people from participation, which is what you did.
Well if you just assume the answer. This shit does tend to get more black and white. Shocked pikachu.
And just lol at you getting upset about accusations of transphobia while (checks notes) seemingly advocating for the blanket exclusion of all trans women from competitive sports.
Imagine if my being too belligerent had somehow shut down this important discussion. What a loss that would have been.
It may be transphobic, but it definitely isn’t for that reason. Everyone can participate in either Y or no Y.
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