I haven’t answered this until now because there are a number of different rulesets that could be applied under which Lia Thomas would not be able to compete as a woman and I’m not particularly interested in the relative merits of each (and I’m not even firm in my belief that she probably shouldn’t be able to compete), but what about simply “women’s sport” being for those who were assigned female at birth and have never had androgen hormone therapy, while “open” is for everyone else?
It is a burden to require an athlete to submit to genetic testing in order to participate in athletics. Its a 14th amendment violation in the US and it’s also a Title IX violation where we’re speaking of collegiate athletics.
It’s amazing how easily people are willing to cast their rights aside because they’re transphobic. Will be fun when your employer can require genetic testing for hiring decisions, banks can require genetic testing before deciding on a loan application.
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How would you enforce this?
Also, making a rule like this is a title ix violation in relation to collegiate sports.
Produce a copy of your birth certificate if you want to play women’s sport at a competitive level?
Dubious about this, otherwise having women’s sport period would be a Title IX violation, but in any case it’s possible to change the law.
I’ll take your word for it as I don’t know all the relevant laws. But why is submitting to testing of testosterone levels and drug testing not a burden (or why are those burdens OK). Also why are testosterone levels not a title IX/14th amendment violation.
Full karyotyping wouldn’t be required. If it doesn’t exist already, someone could probably come up with a test that simply can detect the absence or presence of a Y chromosome and nothing more. Does that change anything?
Why do you believe placing this extra burden on participating in a sport is needed just to satisfy transphobic assholes? Why is this better than what we are currently doing?
This rule would have to exist for men’s sports too. You cannot place a burden on athletic participation that only applies to one sex.
As for requiring the birth certificate, why do you believe this is necessary and better than the existing system?
Well testosterone testing is already required to attempt to “satisfy transphobic assholes”. Why is one test different from another test?
I guess what Chris is saying is that there would no longer be “Men’s sports”. There is simply women’s sports and not women’s sports.
But sure, just say everyone has to produce a birth certificate. Now what?
If that is already happening, why do you believe further burdens need to be placed on participation? As the one advocating for greater burdens on participation, the onus is on you to validate why you believe they are necessary.
Why do you believe requiring a birth certificate is necessary and better than the existing system?
I’m talking about a substitution. Just replace one burden with another.
Why do you believe that solution is better? What problem with the existing system do you believe you are solving?
It’s more unambiguous. Testosterone testing is difficult to draw conclusions from. There is a lot of natural variation and there is also a difference in sensitivity to testosterone. There are also ways to game the testing.
Y chromosome or no Y chromosome is (almost) black and white. It’s also one time and doesn’t require continuous monitoring.
So you believe males and females with no Y chromosome should compete against each other and males and females with a Y chromosome should compete against each other?
Yeah, I think that would be fine. Everyone in either division can compete as however they identify (male, female, nonbinary).
Why do you believe that is better than the current system?
I think we already did this one:
I think some of your characterizations are meant to drum up outrage in the opposite direction?
When she competed as a man she was 6 seconds faster than the women’s record, held by Katey Ledecky, the actual GOAT.
And she would have finished in 19th at nationals had she qualified. Ncaa qualifying is incredibly hard.
She didn’t get 8th out of 8th in the 100 free. She got 8th out of everyone. That’s an incredible feat.
Winning an ncaa division 1 event is a major fucking accomplishment. Dominant even. Finalling in the 100, 200and the 500 is dominant. She didn’t swim the mile, but her personal best is also much faster than national record holder Katey Ledecky (whose record is 37 seconds faster than this year’s winner)
I don’t see how minimizing the accomplishment serves a purpose. And I don’t think anyone knew/knows what the expected outcome is of HRT in a given time frame on an elite swimmer’s performance. And now we have a data point. And it appears from this sample that HRT should have been longer.
Birth certificate and Y chromosome test both will exclude women who society views as cis women, and in many cases especially the Y chromosome, will be news to the woman
This thread is just full of people who could easily spend 5 minutes on what science has to say about sex and gender and why it’s not what you learned in elementary school, or even what you learned in postgrad 20 years ago. Same with your JAQing about regrets and suicide levels and really anything else.
It’s actually very pathetic. And of course the burden is always on everyone else to never show any emotion about the way your willful ignorance results in you participating in and perpetuating bigotry.
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