Trans Issues In Sports/Society

[Rivaldo]

take these pills, kids are cruel. identity at 13 or whatever seems a bit ambitious instinctually. forgive me

[anon29622970]

@anon29622970

To you, or anyone who wants to make these arguments. Please explain exactly what you think restricting female athletics to females means, and what steps you believe athletic governing bodies should take to ensure this that they aren’t currently taking. I want you to get really specific on exactly what changes you’re proposing and how you plan for them to be enforced.

Still waiting…

[Rivaldo]

the policy is 6-foot social distancing at this time

[Rugby]

@Rugby

In response to why I’m so vehement, and why i used the MS13 analogy.

Questions aren’t made without context. Both in society and in this thread.

Questioning whether Lia’s case requires a reexamination of the exact guidelines for swimmers probably could be done in a non transphobic way, perhaps by an official in the sport familiar with the rules and who has the best interest of trans athletes in mind, or a medical professional with experience in the rules for trans athletes. There may even be very trans friendly sports forums where this could be done by a member of the public.

However, that’s very much not the context here.

Instead. At a societal level, we have fox news and transphobes using this deliberately and publicly as something to beat down on trans kids in the media, which is directly harmful on its own, and is furthermore used to support fascist Gestapo level policy against kids, parents and teachers in the south. It’s a debate in which kids are dying.

At the level of the thread, we have an admittedly wide range of deeply ignorant transphobic shit being thrown out, unchallenged by a bunch of privileged dudes who are prioritizing their right to pontificate on a sport they dont even watch, and on an issue they dont understand.

We choose our questions and what we want to discuss. The context here makes some of those choices fucked up.

Hypothetical. A black guy in the bar you’re in is getting beaten by three bouncers and being called a n*****, if you’re in the bar and you start discussing what this means for dress code rules instead of calling the police or intervening, then you’re racist. Even if discussing dress code rules on it’s own sounds pretty innocuous.

That’s where we are at here. Theres active harm being done on this topic and in this thread. Anything less than a full defence of trans people and an attempt to make the transphobia itt unacceptable is not good enough.

Quoting for @Surf

And to make it clearer. The problem with Nero was not the Fiddling.

[Rugby]

@Rivaldo

good thing there wasn’t modern medicine in ancient times. some cultures might’ve found the new technology a challenge to their already permissive way of life.

So. I could ask if Rivaldo is really so fucking stupid he cant tell the difference between enjoying an old movie with problematic jokes (fine, to a point) and posting one of those jokes in a thread about trans rights.

Of course he isnt that stupid.

Instead we have the clearest example of what is happening in this thread. Progressive but otherwise privileged men, when faced with the slightest challenge to their progressive credentials, become instantly defensive and go on the attack.

The it’s reason why rivaldo didnt just say “ugh, yeah, I guess that was ill advised. Still a good movie though”. It’s the same reason why riverman doubled down instead of engaging, it’s the reason why Chris is much more upset about accusations of transphobia against his white Male buddies than he is by the actual transphobia that surrounds his posts.

[Rugby]

Honest question. Do you think those are the only two transphobic posts itt?

[Rivaldo]

wtf is gender anyway?

a continuum from poles super masculine and feminine ?

[alex]

Rivaldo is not a progressive.

[Formula72]

What I was curious was that if the current status quo is focused more on inclusivity at the elite levels or if it’s determined that the conditions taken for trans athletes doesn’t pose a large advantage.

[ScrollWheel]

There are lots and the posts where people reply about “fucking” a trans woman to posts about dating a trans woman are sexist first and transphobic second. Its like people are scared to say what they feel because they dont know what the progressive take should be yet.
If you won’t “date” a trans woman because she’s trans and not because your not physically attracted to her its transphobic but understandable because thats how society has conditioned us.

[Rugby]

Stay the fuck out of the thread asshole.

[ParlaySlow]

Is this exact case problematic just because she has actually won some events? Hypothetically if we could develop totally fair standards for participation, isn’t that what we would expect?

It doesn’t really seem to be a tenable position to say that you are ok with trans women participating as long as they never win.

[clovis8]

Body of woman found in Lake Michigan identified as missing transgender rights...

[Slighted]

yes.

[ParlaySlow]

I think some of the characterizations of her past and present performance have been intentionally misleading to drum up outrage.

• She set a bunch of school records (as a sophomore) when she was competing as a man, so I’m not sure it’s all that noteworthy that she then set school records after undergoing HRT and competing as a woman. Seems like it’s just fair to say she’s the GOAT U of Penn swimmer regardless of gender.

• The bit about how she was ranked #462 as a male swimmer and #1 as a female swimmer is because she continued to compete as a man while undergoing HRT as a junior so her performance suffered greatly relative to men.

• It’s not like she is the GOAT NCAA female swimmer. Yes she just won the NCAA championship in an event, but she also lost in a bunch of other events (including finishing 8th out 8). In the event she did win, she finished just 1.75s ahead of 2nd place, and it was 9 seconds (aka a lot) off the NCAA record.

All in all, isn’t exactly the sort of thing you would expect when a high-level male athlete transitions with HRT and competes with women? She’s highly competitive, but far from dominant.

[00cooler00]

@MrWookie

“Biological male” is an insensitive term meant to invalidate trans women and that also is insensitive to the actual biology of sex and gender, which is murky at best.

Thanks for making this post as it’s something I’ve never considered as a term that could be construed as insensitive. As a hard sciences major a lifetime ago, I tried to take other courses that I thought I’d learn something different from, and one of those was an Anthro course called “Sex and Gender”. I’m 99% sure I used “biological fe/male” several times in that class. It was taught by grad student that had no problem calling out phobic/ism so I’m sure she would have told me. I guess that’s how I’ve always framed it in my own mind as there is the distinction between the two sexes and many/fluid genders.

[anon29622970]

The reason people get labeled as transphobic in here is because they’re posting shit about how she shouldn’t be allowed to compete based on a bunch of bullshit Republican talking points, but they’re incapable of actually stating what specific new policy they want the sports governing bodies to put in place or how they want them to enforce it. If this is such an important issue that you believe they need to change, what do you want changed? Otherwise admit that your opinion is coming from a shitty place and you need to do some self-examination on the topic.

[Riverman]

The most intolerant, belligerent people in this thread, by far, are the self-appointed tolerance police. You’re seriously not helping. And while I can take it and respond calmly most people with no interest in self improvement just tune you out completely.

Like Witchita came in hot with a drive by insulting me for having a white collar job? Great strategy.

[anon29622970]

Who is this post in response to?

[Aofrantic]

“I’m not going to be tolerant unless people are nice to me, and the people being mean to me are the most mean of all” is just a bad look.

Would still prefer you expanded upon what “taking the L” on this issue entails.