After a few deep breaths I’ve realised I’ve come into the thread a little hot.
I would very much recommend that everyone go back to the start and read through the original posts.
I spent a lot more time laying it out last time. The post below is fairly typical.
Requiring a first warning about posting transphobic jokes is bullshit. If someone posted a racist joke from a movie with no context just for a laugh, it would be unacceptable.
We can debate the issues, but this wont be a safe place for trans people if we allow shit like this to fly.
Taking a step back focusing on trans women in sports is like the third fall back position of the religious right. They’ve already tried trans people in various things and society has generally shrugged. That trans people are going to be generally accepted in society seems more possible than not now no matter how sports are decided.
The banning of transitioning as a minor and persecution of people who help trans kids seems very troubling though.
God lord there are some terrible posts in here
I believe that there is a monumental difference between shunning a trans person from playing high school softball and disallowing someone from competing in either a professional or extreme contact (mma boxing) sport. I’d imagine the former is almost always rooted in bigotry.
I was under the assumption that it was already acknowledged that some changes should be made at the top level, no? Because telling just the 2nd place girl to just get over it and that it’s just a game is a similar and irrational form of hatred that isn’t going to help gain any acceptance for those trans people hoping for inclusion with their high school friends in sports.
Also “similar form of hatred”… wow. Reverse transphobia itt.
(Edited)
I need an “I’m actually not informed enough on this issue and think that this would be best handled by the trans and women’s sports communities” option.
Cis dudes (and I’m very much including myself in this) are about the last group that should be opining here.
Some context and a good post. I can understand why you came into the thread so hot when it’s your own brother that is under attack.
I remember when Barry Switzer’s daughter was telling me that her kids weren’t going to get a fair shot at HS sports because of boys cosplaying as girls to win trophies. I calmly explained to her that this wasn’t accurate and she was buying into some ludicrous RWNJ fantasy. Then I saw her phone case.
This is a core issue that people need to keep in mind. Deplorables are wildly distorting and exaggerating (almost completely fabricating) the real risk that trans people are going to steal all the sports jobs (just like immigrants steal all the white man’s jobs!) because deplorables are shitty, hateful, ignorant people. Just a day or two ago on the forum we had a laugh at some poll that showed that Joe Sixpack thought that something like 20% of of the population is trans. Most of the issue here is manufactured deplorable argle bargle.
Yeah, as a Gen-Xer I feel very far behind the curve on trans issues. Was never discussed when I was growing up, people were still coming to grips with gay people being normal and cool.
The odds their kid will actually be good at a sport are astonishingly low.
The odds their kid will ever compete against a trans athlete are miniscule.
The odds they will have a fucking rivalry and get beaten by a trans kid is as likely as them becoming a Disney princess.
I understand this is personal for people and I really do not want to be insensitive but I’m sorry, someone swimming on the mens team for multiple years then suddenly winning a women’s national championship seems really messed up to me.
Cue the “fuck off you ignorant asshole” posts.
But there’s a solution to this, and it’s not BAN TRANS. The IOC (and I assume other sports governing bodies, but I don’t know) have examined the science and put in rules about who is eligible to compete as a woman. People don’t usually compete as men and then just say one day “oh I’m a woman now” and then win a gold medal in the women’s sport the next day. You’re arguing against a Republican fantasy.
I really don’t get this at all. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Should we pay any attention to that opinion? That depends entirely on how well that opinion is supported. If it’s a shitty opinion, then it’s a shitty opinion; it doesn’t matter who it comes from.
I’m not though. This person swam on the mens team for 2 years, was average, then swam on the womens team and won a national championship.
That happened. The persons own teammates said it was bullshit. You can say it’s an isolated case or it doesn’t matter because reasons but don’t pretend it is fiction.
Feel free to say he is wrong, but he is arguing against something that actually happened (i.e. that specific swimmer) and not a fantasy.
So are you arguing for banning trans women from competing in women’s sport, or changing the NCAA’s rules about who can compete, or are you arguing about the science behind who is a “real woman”? Because the fact pattern you laid out is not sufficient. Like, if a “real woman” that was assigned a gender of female at birth competed against men for two years, was mediocre, the switched to competing against women and won, would you conclude she’s not a real woman and it’s obviously unfair?
Acknowledged, I didn’t word that correctly.
How often do you think this actually happens? With all the bullying and hostility around trans people, almost no kid is ever pretending to be trans just to win some championship.
