Right this too
100% agree.
Iâm just saying it might not be as cut-and-dry as âobviously we should do the right thingâ.
How nice of you to allow them that privilege.
Does the black community get a say also?
Of course not, nothing is. But maybe on a board like this we shouldnt be bandying about with âthe polls say people dont like trans athletes so maybe we should just ban it outright.â Especially here we should be advocates. Its just depressing to see that argument anywhere near the fingertips of people I respect here.
They also donât even like womenâs sports to begin with! Ask these people what they think of the WNBA or USWNT and see what they say.
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About whether black people should be able to compete with white people in sports?
Yeah they should. And they did. And we decided it 60 fucking years ago so I think they did a pretty good fucking job.
What the fuck are you on about?
This isnât just a debate about fairness in sports, though. Maybe it is for you, but thatâs not how it is for everyone involved. Itâs a debate about the humanity and respect of other people, and you canât just pretend that itâs nothing but an impersonal discussion of the rules. If youâre coming at this from a place of rules and fairness and not a place of compassion for people struggling to find their place in life, itâs going to come across as crass.
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We see it in March madness and plenty of sports like hockey where players turn pro. The teams with 18-19 year olds about to turn pro win less than the teams of 22, 23 year olds who likely wonât.
There should be more discussion on identifying the importants of inclusion at different levels of competitive sport, imo. The benefits of inclusion for trans folks seem far greater to me when youâre discussing junior high level kids in sports than Olympic levels.
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LOL. That your first response is to strawman my post into a position that has a zero chance of being true is telling.
Youâre being intentionally obtuse. For the same reason that nobody wants to answer the question on whether a cis male is a bigot for not being attracted to a trans woman.
For the record, a poster has postied that with zero pushback.
My last boss was a deplorable business owner and was the biggest champion of womenâs basketball I ever met. Also rooted for the smaller in state schools.
You said we should ask black people and I responded with âask them what?â
How is that a strawman? Its also a question you havent answered. We are talking about trans athletes. What shoild we ask black people about?
When being black involves years of hormone therapy to fundamentally change your body, Iâll listen to this argument.
Iâd like to talk about this point⌠coming from a place that could be considered transphobic, but persuadable.
Perhaps Iâm not as well educated on the process of transitioning and the physical body changes that take place during transitioning,
But I do know there are basic physiological differences between men and women like muscle size. Men also have higher levels of hemoglobin and hematocrit, which dramatically improves their aerobic exercise capacity.
My point has nothing to do with a trans woman fully identifying as a woman. Are there not basic physiological differences between her and other women, even after transitioning?
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I must have typed over a post.
You posited that the acceptability of the trans/black metaphor should be left to the trans community. Does the black community get a say in this?
This is why I have a measured amount of sympathy for Dave Chappelle. His views are immature but I donât pretend to know how he is supposed to digest all of this. There has already been some retconning of Dave in this forum.
Doesnt the hormone therapy dampen the natural advantage? Thats like the exact opposite of the point I was making.
I did no such thing. I posited that the issue of trans women in sports should be left to the trans community. I was not saying trans people should decide whether we should use the trans/black metaphor.
The reason I use that metaphor is not because I think its a direct apples to apples comparison but because it is the best analogy we have to a prior issue that has already been solved in the country. The same reason people used it when comparing gay marriage to interracial marriage.
In both instances a group of people (republicans) want to prevent segregated participation of a group in sport (black/trans athletes) due to the inclusion of the segregated group being unfair to the current competitors.
Its an apt comparison, and is not in any way doing what Dave says, which is diminishing the struggle for civil rights in the 60s when comparing a similar struggle for civil rights for trans people in the 2020s
Trans women are women. If you believe this, you can save yourself a lot of mental work to wind up on the right side of human rights and dignity.
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This is an ugly thread. A lot of folks who want to âpresentâ as right when in reality they want to keep historical norms in place.
Trans women are women.
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