I hadn’t thought of it like that, but yeah it seems crystal clear. Trans women are women. Tall women are women. If being a trans woman is an advantage, it’s not as big of an advantage as being tall. Anyone who can’t stand being at a disadvantage should pick a fairer sport (cough wrestling cough).
And now that I ponder it, I’m struggling to think of how a trans woman might be at a physical advantage in the first place. Hypothetically even if there’s a strength difference on average, wouldn’t that only be when comparing two women that don’t do any strength-training whatsoever? If you’re an athlete in a sport where strength matters, it’s on you to do some strength training. I realize that men have higher ceilings than women when both train, but a trans woman shouldn’t have a higher ceiling than a cis woman, right?
Who are “we,” exactly? If it occurred in such a way that the public viewed it as an impropriety in a high-profile sport, it would be an immediate reactionary springboard incident. The logic bro takes about it being no different than being born tall would be drowned out by FUDders who capture the hearts and minds of people who haven’t thought about it too much. The only reason that doing nothing will probably work is because the premise (that transgender athletes will dominate women’s sports) is bullshit, thus making it unlikely to happen.
No one here is accepting eugenecist-based Nazi talking points from Republicans. That’s the worst strawman in this thread. What I’m previewing is how their plan can actually come to be widely accepted, and it’s not LOL children’s sports. Nobody cares about high school sports. Lots of people care about professional sports with hundreds of millions (billions?) of dollars at stake, and the sequence of events that could lead to an anti-trans backlash is very different in that domain.
To whom? Hopefully not me? You don’t need to “win” me. You need to win the public if a transgender athlete begins to dominate women’s tennis. Good luck doing that with a height argument. That’s why I’m saying that it actually is important to have the theoretical dialogue on this now as opposed “let’s wait and see if it actually happens.”
Pro sports/Olympics for the most part already have rules in place about this or would quickly put them in place if it started to be an issue. The fight right now is all about high school and college sports.
As for the Republican contention - it’s that trans women playing women’s sports is an issue that we need to address right now. It’s not, there are no transwomen in pro sports and studies I’ve seen say it’s a very tiny number in high school and college, and they certainly aren’t dominating. I am not against discussing this, but I don’t think that discussion should accept that there is any need to enact restrictions at the high school and and college level.
Question for those in support of trans women being allowed to participate in women’s sports. I’m a bit confused because I’m not sure everyone means the exact same thing when they say “trans woman”.
Do they need to be on hormones? If yes, then
Why is identifying as a woman not enough?
What about those who don’t have access to medical care to transition, so they can’t get them?
Do hormone levels need to be checked?
What do you do about XY kids who identify as female, but haven’t started transitioning yet?
This study isn’t comprehensive by any means but it seems clear for at least two years trans women transitioning maintain a solid edge over cis women. 10% more in pushups, 6% in sit ups, and 12% in running after two years.
They said after two years it becomes pretty close, so about 2.5 years.
Not just at high school and college. The people affected are much younger than that.
The amendment is for k-12 (and college). They want to withhold funding from schools for allowing a five year old girl to play sports with other girls if she has had transgender experiences. Let’s talk about that aspect. Let’s talk about what the experience is like that for little girl and what her life will be like as she grows up. Let’s discuss what we can do going forward to show her and people like her greater care.
We have limited time each day for where to apply our attention. The other side of this for cisgender people is already explored well beyond anything we would say on it here.
So again, I’d ask the posters working through their transphobic positions and any unrecognized feelings of transphobia to shift their focus from protecting cisgender kids and point their concern toward how to care for the trans kids being affected. I’d ask anyone taking a discussion on how to better care for trans kids and basically saying “yes but first what about cisgender people” to please explore the lived experience of the trans side for a while.
There are innumerable protections for cisgender kids. Let’s focus on how to manifest worthy protections for kids with transgender experiences, too.
But I think there’s a conflation (by some itt) between concern for cis females, and cisgender in general. It hearkens back to the original reason for there being women’s sports, and it’s lol to suggest that it’s bc men don’t want to play with women or solely that women don’t want to play with sexist men. If you think that’s the bulk of the reason, it’s indicative of athletic ignorance.
Yes some people are genetically advantaged over others, but the line has to be drawn somewhere. Or not, and eliminate female sports altogether as has been bandied about, that’s not cutting off your nose to spite your face at all.
I’m sorry but some of this reeks of the noble savage, just bc someone is trans doesn’t mean they’re beyond unleveling the playing field.
Bolded is different. Way too much money involved. The riders on that gravy train don’t have to actually believe they are legitimately disadvantaged to leverage the public’s belief that such is true in order to protect their own financial interests. And it’s more complex than just athletes themselves attempting self-preservation since the real profit takers will call shots in whatever way keeps the brrrr machine going (which may include embracing transgender athletes, but just as well may not).
The WNBA operates at a loss, not a profit. The NBA keeps it going so females both have someone to look up to and empower them, as well as steer them to hopefully being NBA fans.
NEW YORK (AP) — As 2018 closes, the WNBA is at a crossroads. … The WNBA says it has lost significant money the last 22 years, including $12 million last season. "On average (we’ve lost) over $10 million every year we’ve operated, NBA Commissioner Adam Silver told The Associated Press in October.
It’s also good to be short in baseball, tiny strike zone.
You can proclaim this is a bad premise but it goes directly to the heart of the matter. Is your position that trans women should be allowed to compete in women events without restrictions or do you find some restrictions justified?
If that study above is accurate, an average of 8-10% physical advantage is WAY bigger of an advantage than Phelps has over his competitors. So the whole " everyone isn’t equal " story doesn’t really work in that context. At high level competition the advantage is usually very small.
That said we need more studies to confirm that.
But after 2.5 years it seems like everything is equal so shouldn’t have a competitive problem. So maybe just need to adjust the time limit?
In just about every sport with weight classes, being short is an advantage. You can fit more muscle per pound of human on a short person than on a tall person, who has more weight per pound of human spent on things like bones and vital organs. And in weightlifting in particular, shorter lever arms and shorter distances to move the weight are both important.
