Nobody is making that argument.
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I feel Republicans are using the same tactics they always do and am shocked people here are falling in line. They start with the broad idea they want - trans people are scary. And then pick a narrow line of attack, because they canât say the big argument. First it was bathrooms and now itâs sports. They then claim that trans women is sports is a big issue, without any evidence it actually is - other than a few anecdotes.
Itâs the exact same tact they take for voter suppression - yes there are a few instances of voter fraud, but it doesnât mean we should disenfranchise millions. Itâs also the same tact they took about illegal immigrants - yes some of them commit crimes while in the US - but that doesnât mean we should round them all up.
Itâs the same here - yes a handful of trans women are playing womenâs sports at a high level and taking away scholarships from women - that doesnât mean we should disseminate against all trans women (and thatâs assuming you accept that trans women playing womenâs sports is even a problem).
Itâs also insane to frame this as a cis women vs trans women issue. They people leading this fight to ban trans women are cis males afraid of trans women, not some coalition of cis women athletes.
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Agree with all of this except for the phrasing here about âtaking awayâ.
If you actually believe âtrans women are womenâ, then your statement is no different than âyes some 6â 6â men are taking basketball scholarships away from 5â 6" men", which is a statement no one would take seriously.
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YET. Suspend disbelief for a moment and imagine that the claim that transgender women will eventually come to dominate womenâs sports is true. In that imaginary world, do we really think that the top-earning (read: pro) cis women athletes would easily relinquish their position in the hierarchy without some sort of fight? There is way too much money at stake (lol @ people referencing gold medals and womenâs soccer; Naomi Osaka made close to $40M last year and Serena is worth a quarter of a billion dollars).
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If that happens, then we can re-address the issue in that context. Until this happens, we shouldnât accept the Republicanâs contention that we need restrictions to protect against a largely hypothetical harm (again accepting that trans women playing womenâs sports is actually a harm). I would note that I have stated Iâm more sympathetic to restrictions on pro sports - but right now all the laws are focused on âprotectingâ high school and college womenâs sports.
I would say the same thing about voter fraud laws - if in the future it turns out that millions of fraudulent votes are actually being cast every year, I would support considering stronger voting laws.
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We need to start discriminating NOW to prepare for some incredibly unlikely fantasy scenario is a poor look, imo.
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This is such bullshit and why people donât venture into the echo chamber.
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Again, gonna bring up the height argument.
Naomi Osaka is nearly 6 feet tall, putting her in something like the 99th percentile for women. This provides a significant advantage in tennis over shorter opponents.
If Naomi Osaka is not âunfairly taking Grand Slam championships away from shorter womenâ, I donât see how one can come to the conclusion that âtrans women can take XYZ away from cis womenâ unless you donât fully believe that trans women are women.
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Right.
Doesnât mean that trans shouldnât be allowed, just that the topic isnât as straightforward as some itt make it out to be. Of course, me saying that itâs a simple issue for them is rebutted by telling me how itâs a simple issue for them and for me to gtfo.
Thatâs fine, I knew the response before I posted.
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I mean cis women are just as capable of discrimination and bigotry towards trans women as men are so Iâm not sure anyoneâs opinion should count for much other than the trans people who are actually being affected by all this.
Thatâs the core issue and where I (think I) disagree.
Of course, me having any opinion is nullified due to my opinion. Thatâs why Iâd only discuss it here (and would never be strident).
What part do you disagree about?
Whoever mentioned Wrestling, the only case I remember is when a trans boy was forced to compete in the girls division (exposing how little the transphobes cared about competitive fairness). IMO when it comes to Wrestling and sports with weight classes / no natural advantages, we shouldnât even separate the genders, just give females (cis and trans) whatever % weight advantage is necessary to make it fair against males.
When it comes to inferior sports like Basketball, whether to divide the genders is trickier and probably should be decided by women.
As for trans women in sports, until thereâs real evidence of this being an issue and cis women start complaining, I say let trans females on hormones play with cis females.
Let anyone who wants to compete with males do so.
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That cis women shouldnât have input in how it affects their opportunities. I understand the argument that they shouldnât tho.
They should have input, at least more so than men, but we still need to determine whether they are actually incurring any harm or whether their concerns are just based on the pervasive fantasies about trans people. Like a properly competitive person (i.e. one concerned only with winning) should probably say he/she doesnât want trans athletes in his/her sport because itâs an easy way to eliminate a competitor, whether or not that person has some built in competitive advantage. Iâm sure a lot of cis women are conceptually uncomfortable using the same facilities as trans women but we all know that has amounted to much ado about nothing in practice.
There are some interesting parallels with the anti-immigration crowd argument that it results in lower wages for existing people competing in the same job marketsâŚwhich may or may not be true (IANA economist) but in any case overlooks more important factors which are overwhelmingly on the pro-immigration side.
Agreed.
I think combat sports are their own category due to physical danger, but even then if both parties are aware then Iâm murky on my opinion. I think ftmp, the issue is a solution in search of a problem and cover for bigots.
Right, good comparison.
Bernie being wary of immigrant workers previously speaks to this.
Itâs bathrooms 2.0, now with a handful of anecdotes.
Hear me out - topshot but for trans athletes and conservative pundits.
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