LOL
fracturing the left right now is the biggest gift to the right atm. you could easily end up with repub governors in CA/NY/WA like that. that is all i’m saying.
The system is a product of far more than dems but they certainly help prop it up.
My real point is I’m not convinced if we magically swapped out every eDem with a progressive today that much would change because the system hasn’t changed.
It’s like trying to change your car from gas to electric by using 92 octane gas instead of 87!
I didn’t think it was possible but your point may actually be even more depressing than mine. I can’t say I disagree much as getting anything done is enormously difficult.
1 Like
Agree 100%.
It’s curious that ITF when posters are discussing: avenues to challenge the legitimacy of the system–Political Abstention; or confronting the power imbalances that are built into our system–Abolishing Landlords; or dismantling the institutions that enforce the system–Defund/Abolish the police; that some other posters choose to variously troll, mock, dismiss out of hand, or insist that those subjects only be discussed at some future time and place.
2 Likes
It’s why I said I had shifted my view a bit on election night to join the “burn it all down” crowd.
I really think all the talk about Biden sucking, not enough of this person or that person, media bias etc is just noise at this point. It’s very close to meaningless.
Save the most extreme cases, like Trump, I am becoming very sympathetic to the idea it’s doesn’t matter much who is president from which party. The system is what creates the bad outcomes.
I’m still not at the “burn it all down” sense of true revolution but I do think we need to start finding ways to attack weaknesses in the system. Force changes at the structural level.
All the “team sports” of progressive vs libtard, left vs right are just another way the system is designed to preserve itself.
5 Likes
I was certainly one of them but as I say above am being moved toward this idea more and more. That’s not to say I’ll agree with every idea but my opinion is certainly shifting.
1 Like
I wasn’t really meaning progressive in some absolutist sense I guess. I mean those of us on the left that actually want to get popular shit done need to break away or do something to change the power dynamic on the left. Yes the system sucks but with the Dems being controlled by Obama/Clinton/Pelosi and their cronies there isn’t even any hope to take the first steps.
This is what really gets me upset when thinking about the Obama administration. We knew who Clinton and Pelosi where, but Obama was supposed to represent hope and change and more openness, etc. etc. The first two years of his administration could have changed the course of this country, and they completely blew it because he wasn’t the guy we all voted for. After that, there wasn’t much he could do. But he had a chance if he didn’t fumble those first 2 years so badly.
3 Likes
I get that, but is the theory that a left wing third party makes, say, the House suddenly 95% Republican? Why wouldn’t it be 40% R, 40% D, and 20% Good.
fracturing the left? There is no left unity. I mean you like the CIA dem (lol) who was complaining about AOC, don’t think you cared about fracturing the left when that was happening but just called it the discourse or something
If this “left” gets fractured because progressives are advocating for good things and the edems only want them to shut up then so be it.
3 Likes
Because it’s a coordination problem. The new left-wing party might be able to win 1 or 2 seats out of 435 and probably hand some safe D seats (incl. Senate) to Republicans in the process.
This goes to my point though. It’s not that Obama didn’t live up to expectations. It’s that the expectations were wrong. We keeping making the same mistakes over and over assuming if we could just get person X into office all would be fixed. It wouldn’t, no matter who person X was.
If we could appoint AOC as president today I strongly suspect there would be far less of an effect than so many here think.
1 Like
If we got AOC elected with control of both the house and senate and coming off a disastrous foreign affairs adventure and recession I think she changes the country forever.
2 Likes
Symbolically yes. Structurally no.
It’s not about just legislation it’s about shifting the overton window. Bernie did that a massive amount just losing. If Obama had got in and done shit that made peoples lives WAY better like M4A or public option, among other things, it would have shifted bigly.
Shifting the overton window is how we eventually get that legislation
there are a lot of systems, so it’d be good to define what exactly needs blowing up. there’s voting, there’s party structure, there are a ton of states underrepresented. if you don’t trust the system, that’s certainly a problem (e.g. stop the steal). and i agree the left has gotta start talking about that.
personally i think that ranked choice would promote progressives without giving up a bunch of seats to the gop. that could be done at state level. apportionment has to change, and it would take an amendment, or a revolution. pr/dc statehood may as well be official deme platform. seems straightforward to just do it next chance, unless obama/schumer know something we don’t.
ianal so i don’t get the sanctity of the judiciary, but in western democracies the prescribed thing is to make them as independent as possible and divide the powers as much as possible. that seems consistent with more circuits and more judges, and senators has gotta start talking about that. afaict, preet is a schumer fanboy and he says these things.
i understand that’s not progressive enough for a lot of people.
Yeah, a real progressive would have taken the opportunity to bring Wall Street to it knees and changed everything. Instead, Obama absorbed the blowback on Wall Street’s behalf and whined that they didn’t appreciate his protection enough.
If it makes you feel better, Harry Reid and his elite friends never would have gotten behind Obama in the first place to allow him to win the Presidency if he was who we thought he was.
3 Likes
I don’t know what it means that he should have “done shit like m4a”. How? He had no way of doing it.
Let me ask you this. If Obama had unlimited power do you believe he wouldn’t have instituted M4a?
First step to change the country actually wouldn’t be legislation, it would be putting all the crooks that 90%+ of the country hated in prison instead of bailing them out.
1 Like