When I said human beings, I didn’t mean only Americans. How will production by humans go down if they move? How will services to humans go down? If they get no services in Guatemala, then I’m fine with them moving and sharing services here, the same way I’m fine with an old person in New York getting services.
None of that is at all a concession about the point that about whether your assertion that whatever safety net the US can offer will turn immigrants into net takers.
Early detection and check ups cost the healthcare system less with cancer than later treatment.
Not treating the people who are here for it now seems very very wrong. Especially given America’s responsibility in undocumented immigrants coming here in the first place.
The US is not rich enough to give those benefits to everyone in the world who needs them.
The US is not rich enough to give free cancer treatments to everyone in the world who can afford a plane ticket.
If every single person in Guatemala, Honduras, and El Salvador moved to the US, and that’s mostly who we are talking about right now, it would be an economic benefit and would increase our population by less than 10%.
I get your point but it doesn’t seem constructive to pretend that open borders implies that everyone in the whole world would move to the US to claim any benefits. There has to be a more reasonable basis for estimating the number of people that would move to the US if the US does X.
I’m not talking about open borders. I’m talking about undocumented immigrants who are here right now and if they should get healthcare provided if they can’t afford it.
If not then the combination of us causing most of the immigrants to come here by turning their countries into hells and not treating them is some iffy morals.
Completely ignoring the economic side of things, I would also argue that there is a moral justification for helping anyone from that area. US policies have absolutely fucked many Latin American countries.
This is my issue. We helped turn their countries into living hells and then when they come here we throw a little more hell on them. Fuck us. We should be paying reparations when they get to our border. We are morally obligated to help them.
Why do you think there won’t be a lot of people in the rest of the economic bottom 50% countries that would like to move to the US if they can get benefits there? Many of them already do when they are promised $0.
Not everyone. The US currently already ranks fairly high in the list of desirable places to live. How high do you think it will rank if it gets a good social safety net available to every resident?
Yes.
But wouldn’t that lead down the same road? Meaning people would know if they can get to America and get befits the whole world would come here?
Right now they are still facing the risk of deportation.
They come here for work. Thank goodness. They are needed.
That doesn’t make me think they will come here to be unemployed.
If they come here to be unemployed they should still get cancer treatment. Any other belief is deplorable.
I am not arguing against letting in all those willing and able to work. What I am arguing is that letting in those are not able will result in decreased social benefits per person.
You said giving new giving new immigrants benefits immediately would be problematic. Not sure why that would not still be somewhat of a problem even with deportation. Alright though.
Instead of open borders let’s get rid of them altogether…those stupid lines on maps will kill us all…
I know. I don’t think it’s true that it would lower benefits per American. I’d let them in even if so. Or rather, I still would prefer not to pay someone with a gun to stop them. It certainly wouldn’t lower benefits per human being.
I am not following your math.
?
If a family comes in with a couple old people a couple middle age people and a few young people, the old people may be a draw on services, but the others will produce more than they draw making the net a contribution.