The Television Streaming Thread: Part II - Hot Takes, Jags Fans, and Bert

[Bigoldnit]

@RiskyFlush

I think you know you’re fluent when you start dreaming in that language.

I’m second screening this thread while watching Monsieur Spade and one of the characters just said this exact thing. Weird synchronicity

[Melkerson]

@Ikioi

@Melkerson

But they have an accent that makes it clear that they are not native speakers.

Well you just said it yourself. The accent difference (in this case) differentiates them from native speakers. In other cases it may be slight grammar trip-ups. Or using a word or expression that conveys the proper meaning in the situation, but is colloquially different from what almost any native would use.

Once again, a non-speaker of the language listening in wouldn’t be able to pick up on these differences. But a native speaker would.

In your example, the non-native may have better command of English than many natives (my own Japanese instructor was such a person). But they (and she) are still not native speakers from the perspective of a native.

Fluent? Yes. Expert? Yes. But native? No.

First of all, for the most part I’m not counting anything in bolded. Grammar trip ups or using weird words are very likely disqualifying, in nearly all cases (I can come up with some exceptions, but we would be straying farther from the derail). So I for the most part agree that anyone in the bolded wouldn’t count as a native speaker.

The only people I’m giving a pass to is those who speak it perfectly in every way, but they just have a different accent.

I guess Japanese is different in that there are a probably a lot more extremely different English accents than there are Japanese ones.

For example, I think that it wouldn’t take me that long to be able to learn a decent Australian accent, for example. Actors do this pretty routinely for parts all the time. Obviously you would have to do more work than that, but it’s still achievable. However, there’s no point to doing it. Similarly, someone who can speak perfect English but with an accent could probably do the same thing and learn an American accent if they so chose. Most people just don’t because there is no point if they are perfectly understood anyway.

The other problem with your definition is that it would create a problem for people who speak only Japanese, but have a weird accent. This happens infrequently, but I encounter it in English and I presume it must happen in Japanese at least rarely. Sometimes they have a reason for it (e.g. speech impediment) but other times there is no discernable reason. It’s just how they talk and it doesn’t sound quite like any known accent.

They would by definition have to be native speakers, but if most other speakers think their accent is weird, then that makes them not native? Seems like we end up in a paradox that can’t be resolved.

@Huehuecoyotl

There’s certain vocal sounds that each language has and other’s don’t. You can be fluent and be able to approximate those sounds but you can’t always get them to be as good as a native speaker, hence an accent.

Yeah, that is true depending on the language, which is why I said it would take an “insane” amount of effort. But most languages have a bit of a range in what’s acceptable for various sounds (English may be an outliar here as far as number of variations). Also as mentioned above there are rare people who speak only one language and still have a weird accent for some reason. It would make no sense to call those people not native speakers.

At the end of the day, I think this is mostly a lot of edge case nittery. I’d say if you truly are perfectly fluent (at least by my definition) you can probably fix the accent with a lot of effort. But if you’re that good at the language, there is really no point unless you are an actor or something like that.

[Ikioi]

@Melkerson

At the end of the day, I think this is mostly a lot of edge case nittery.

Yes.

[CanadaMatt3004]

How crazy would it be if he won an Emmy for that and never sniffed one for BCS

[econophile]

Well I was holding out hope for this season, but I don’t think it’s really fucked up enough to be a true detective

[LFS]

I thought the most recent episode was maybe the best this season, at least some stuff happened. And Jodie Foster didn’t fuck anybody, which was nice.

[LFS]

Eric Idle Rampage: Monty Python Star Takes Shots At John Cleese, Terry...

[CanadaMatt3004]

“Forks” is a really beautiful episode of television.

[LKJ]

It’s the gold standard of The Bear so far. Incredible stuff. And a perfect way to bounce back the emotional tone for the viewer after Fishes.

[CanadaMatt3004]

Yeah, I put it away for a couple days after Fishes, but really really enjoyed this episode. Plus, fucking Olivia Colman out of nowhere.

The entire Guest actor and actress categories next year will be made up entirely of The Bear cast.

[RiskyFlush]

It means Jamie Lee Curtis is almost guaranteed to go two for two as a nominee for a best supporting category, with a strong shot at coming in as a winner the second time too.

[MCG]

I swear one of those gif frames is kristen wiig and it’s a mesmerizing gif now. I keep going another cycle to see it

[MCG]

This went by way too fast. Delightful

Larry David

[RiskyFlush]

Was it this frame?

[RiskyFlush]

Shogun review: Game of Thrones, if Game of Thrones was set in feudal Japan

[mosdef]

I am so ready.

[econophile]

Shō’nuff

[MCG]

Yes

[Danspartan]

I see FX/Hulu. As an old man am I going to be able to “tape” (dvr) this show on my old school cable TV?

[CanadaMatt3004]

Yeah, basic cable, not premium. Id be surprised if there is any cable company that doesnt include it in its base package