But you weren’t you saying that when you’re on the bubble (so past early tourney play) you use psychology instead of GTO. Maybe you meant that you use them together, but I didn’t think that was really possible.
$150 live tourney money ladder is psychology. You’re not in push/fold yet like SNGs. Unless you’re short-stacked, there’s still room to raise/fold, re-raise less than allin, play some actual poker. When it’s live and you can see people’s faces and hear their comments, you’ve probably been playing with them for a while, you know how much the money ladder means to them, etc.
Online SNGs quickly get to push/fold, which is where ICM comes in and when all the major $EV decisions happen. Still rarely GTO because ideally your opponents have bad ranges. But yeah if you’re playing against another good pro then it’s basically GTO ranges.
Also SNGs at the end are pure push/fold. Tourneys still have some room for raising, ownage, reraise w/o all-in, etc. - even when the blinds get big.
Psychology is irrelevant to GTO.
So if I understand you correctly in the 150 live tournament bubble the suzzer strat is more or less:
Big stack = psychology
Small stack = GTO push/fold
GTO is simply a strategy you can selectively employ to keep good, aggressive players from running over you. It doesn’t mean playing like a bot or not playing exploitatively when appropriate.
Ed Miller’s book “Poker’s 1%…” helped me to incorporate GTO thinking into my gameplay.
I wouldn’t say GTO push/fold, because they don’t call properly. They assume you have a monster, because they’ve watched you play pretty tight for most of the tourney. Until you get caught a few times, then the regs start to adjust. But they still don’t call wide enough or shove wide enough.
GTO by definition means not playing exploitatively.
You’re talking about a comprehensive strategy incorporating GTO, but being exploitative when available. I’m saying at $150 tourneys even knowing GTO isn’t worth much. But obviously gets bigger as you move up (or play basically any level online).
I agree it’s probably incredibly useful to know GTO in all spots, to have as a baseline, even if you play against shitty players and rarely use it. I just don’t want to spend 100s of hours studying charts.
I’m really confused. I thought it did mean this.
Nobody plays GTO every hand, the same way that football teams don’t play the same defensive setup on every down.
Players who know GTO still exploitatively pound on the fish and weak-tight TAGs, but have the ability to know how to respond to aggressive players when HU and holding decent but not great hands.
Let me get this straight.
Just because Sotomayer made an innocuous statement that she liked poker this thread derailed into a GTO vs exploitative conversation on the day the 1st black woman is scheduled to become appointed to SCOTUS?
Carry on.
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nah, GTO is not a profit-maximizing strategy against any given opponent. instead, it’s an equilibrium strategy in the sense that if all other players are playing GTO, then you can do no better than play the GTO strategy yourself.
I think that’s what I’m saying. Playing GTO means that you are not playing exploitatively.
Is that wrong?
reading up through the conversation and what Chesspain said, it looks like we agree.
GTO is randomizing your choice in rock/paper/scissors. You’ll never win or lose in the long run.
Extrapolate for poker (but also assume your opponent is playing perfect GTO as well for the analogy to hold).
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Unstuck works in mysterious ways.
^^^^^
This is the same example I was going to make. Except that with GTO (in RPS and poker) you will win in the long run against a player playing any other strategy. Just not as much as you could win by playing the optimally exploitative strategy against that player (e.g., always paper against a player who always plays rock).
Lol at all the lawbros going nuts on twitter at whatever bullshit Mitch said today. Pointing out Mitch McConnells hypocrisy is the biggest waste of time imaginable.
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Doesn’t GTO in RPS mean that you break even against every other strategy?
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Yeah it’s super-simplified because you can win in poker playing GTO, just not against another GTO bot.
But in RPS if you play GTO it doesn’t matter what your opponent does.