I was wondering about that. Why does a trial suddenly change it into not a bill of attainder? And does a senate trial really count?
Also when I meant blew up norms Iâm not talking about #s, more the way he used EOs. There is no limit to what you can really try now. Stealing Military money for his wall, the muslim ban, stealing money from FEMA for unemployment.
Like before I would think cancelling 10-50k in student debt via EO would have been a massive deal, but after what Trump did I doubt anyone but Trumpers will give a shit.
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As a basic principle, you canât punish someone without due process. The Constitution establishes the process for barring someone from federal office and that process is impeachment.
Just speculating, but cancelling student debt via EO sounds illegal/unconstitutional. IE, it might not really happen even if Biden issued the order.
Let the courts figure that out
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Also take money from the military for the climate emergency and let the courts figure that out too. They already ruled it was constitutional for Trump to do it for immigration.
Sure this court will block it, but itâll help go towards building the case we need to pack the court. Every little bit that shows the court is a partisan hackery body that doesnât care about the law, just politics, helps the cause for normies.
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Yeah, but âpunishing someone without due processâ and âbill of attainderâ are two different things. There are different parts of the constitution that deal with them.
I thought bill of attainder just meant âlaw directed at a specific personâ.
In reading some stuff about it in the last few minutes, it seems like some people interpret bill of attainder to mean âlaw directed at a specific person without a trialâ, but Iâm not sure where the last part comes from. Maybe there were some court cases that established it.
Canceling student debt was an Elizabeth Warren plan and she claimed this legal justification for doing so:
The Higher Education Act gives the Department of Education the ability to modify, compromise, waive, or release student loans. This authority provides a safety valve for federal student loan programs, letting the Department of Education use its discretion to wipe away loans even when they do not meet the eligibility criteria for more specific cancellation programs like permanent disability discharge.
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The US military is a huge emitter of CO2. Biden can do a lot about this just as Commander in Chief.
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Woah I unconsciously read that paragraph in Warrenâs voice and didnât even realize I was doing so until I finished.
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Attainder is declared in two main ways, by judicial process (see: attainder by verdict and attainder by confession) and by legislative act. A bill of attainder is punishment outside of a judicial process, i.e. a trial.
None of that is inconsistent with my interpretation. Letâs forget about this case (i.e. Trump). If some random went through a judicial trial, any law passed against him specifically is still outside the trial. So, itâs still a bill of attainder, despite the fact that a trial happened.
A vote to bar Trump from office happens within the context of impeachment, i.e. a trial. The Senate acts as a judicial body for this purpose and a Senate trial counts as a real trial. Thatâs why it wouldnât count as a bill of attainder if done properly.
I bring up due process more as a principle to understand why things are the way they are than as specific legal underpinning. A bill of attainder is abhorrent to the American conception of justice, which believes that everyone deserves their fair day in court.
If you want to punish Trump without going through the appropriate process, then look to extralegal remedies.
iâm guessing it falls under due process?
i see other people already looked it up and confirmed
Not going to lie I was expecting After Mash or Archieâs Place but the writers are still going at it.
Yeah but he will, Chuck, you fuck.
I dunno, from a practical standpoint, the fuck you, no defense works pretty well here. The federal government is the holder of the notes. If the head of the federal government issues an order saying âI am cancelling this note, you donât owe me the money anymore,â going to be tough for any court to turn around later and tell all the borrowers, just kidding, you do owe them after all.