The main reason we don’t leave now is that we want more time to save money. So we don’t have to worry as much about the careers we will be leaving behind here. As to where to go have you traveled much? The world is full of wonderful places that honestly make 90% of the US cities look like depressing shitholes. If you don’t want to pick one travel nomading on travel visas is a legit option. As far as a place to stay permanently some place like Portugal seems ideal to me. Although obviously getting permanent residence or citizenship most places is a bit of a grind.
The other option we have considered is a hybrid model where we live here for a few months a year to keep income and our professional licenses intact while we work towards the more permanent goal. Anyways there is an entire thread about this that has a lot of good info in it.
I’m well aware most of the world is a political mess. That is far from the only reason. But it is a reason. We have been talking about it for a long time anyways. The US is a deeply unhealthy place even outside of the political sphere. Allowing the moron class to literally rule the country for the foreseeable future by 2024 is just the thing that is pushing us to finally act.
Ya we don’t and can’t have kids. Obviously that plays into the ability to do something most would consider crazy. I don’t know of any place taking US refugees yet.
I know you mean elections that are outright rigged or stolen after the votes are counted but the elections are very much not honest elections already.
Gerrymandering, reducing voting places in urban areas to dissuade voters from voting because of long lines, unconstitutional voter ID laws and on and on were already cheating. The new laws being passed and people being placed into positions of power wrt to our elections in key states all but guarantee that elections will pretty much be rigged by 2022.
The Dems have to win elections by 5-10% in an environment where their voters are being prevented from voting to whatever extent the Republicans can come up with just to break even. In my mind we are already living in a post-democracy world here. Just think how impossible it is to accomplish popular things in the US?
And look I know I am preaching to the choir here with you and most people here but I don’t see a reasonable path forward. The best case scenario you list (Dems hold Senate) is a stopgap. It delays what is already seemingly inevitable.
I would note that if they somehow get to 51 or 52 senators (map is actually as good as it’s ever going to be) and magically hold the house (20% chance at best), they can tell Manchin to fuck off.
Cinema, and possibly Feinstein, and possibly some other lurkers who don’t want to talk shit but will be fine to build a coalition with them when the time comes and all the heat isn’t on them.
I wouldn’t feel comfortable with anything less than like 53-54
They will still try to negotiate with Republicans. If they won’t blow up the filibuster now, why would they start enacting legislation with just a small majority?
We have to accept this isn’t really about tactics for them. It’s about identify. They personally believe in a mythology of good outcomes via bipartisanship. Expecting them to stop negotiating with Republicans is like expecting religious people to stop praying. They won’t. It’s their way.
Part of me thinks you are right. Part of me thinks there will always be the requisite number of Dems to prevent progress. In 2009-2010 60 Senators, the Presidency and control of the House accomplished what? Romneycare and massive handouts to corporations and financial entities was pretty much it right? They didn’t legalize marijuana, gay marriage or any of the other low hanging fruit they could have easily accomplished with stand alone bills let alone do a single actually progressive thing.
Again that time you had a few holdouts that held up the original Obamacare bill that was far superior until they could lose a special election and then have the excuse of only 59 votes. They couldn’t nuke the filibuster with 59 votes to provide Americans with better health care. It’s hard for me to see largely the same cast of characters doing it with 52 votes.
Leaving the country seems unnecessarily dramatic for several reasons. First, whatever is going to happen is probably going to occur over the course of decades and only directly effect most people minimally. Second, as SUB noted, there aren’t many great alternatives if you aren’t absurdly wealthy, and whatever happens in the US is going to reverberate across the rest of the world anyway. Third, I think a relatively peaceful dissolution of the US is far more likely than any sort of serious civil war or Hollywood-style apocalypse.
If you want to get out mainly to experience something else, that’s great. But if you’re seriously worried about the political situation just move to one of the better states. It’s a lot easier and far more practical.
That’s the problem. It’s not just a magical number. 60 people would be enough, but ONLY if they’re the right people! A Senate consisting of 99 Joe Bidens and 1 Mitch McConnell will pass what Mitch McConnell wants.
I think I presented as my wife and I are leaving just because of the GOP going full fascist. Yes that is part of it but we have talked about living abroad for years.
The thing that really has worn us down is where we live and both sets of our family being full blown Trump supporting morons. I have clients who come into my office at least once a week and spew openly moronic GOP talking points. I can’t have a real conversation with any of my family about anything without it trending into some racist or deplorable political bent. Every larger social get together is tinged with the fact some or most of these people are truly awful people. Living in Oklahoma during Covid and witnessing 80% of the people around me, even some I previously thought were good people, willing to kill people to eat at Chili’s was soul crushing.
Now could I move to California or Washington or something? Sure. That would probably solve most of that. I could hide out amongst like minded people and forget the country is burning down in slow motion. I would likely be shielded at least for a while from the worst aspects of the US. We have talked about doing that also. We are travel addicts who love the adventure of it though. So I would by lying if I said part of it wasn’t that. The idea of living a year abroad one month at a time in different places is attractive to me in and of itself. The idea of moving more permanently somewhere is as well.
If anyone likes camping they can move to CA and I will take you out to our full moon festivals. Bunch of super cool, smart, mature people who do fun stuff. We camp out for a weekend, drink, BBQ, drop acid/mushrooms/mdma if thats your thing, listen to music, watch people spin fire/poi, look at cool art,
Or just travel around and hang out and different peoples camps. Like burning man but like 500-1000 people instead of a billion with half of them rich douchebags.
It’s invite only, gotta know someone, directions go out an hour before and you gotta get them from a long time member. So rift raft is probably only 10%. Rest are cool people.
If you aren’t into the drugs, you can still come camp out bbq and meet cool people. Some are very progressive and active in the political community. Not super well informed and dedicated like here, but will march with BLM and donate any money that goes over covering the party to charity etc.
Those definitely help keep me sane which is probably why I’ve been way more WAAF than normal during covid. IF anyone remembers me before covid I was like top 5 optimist, which was delusional but at least I was happy lol.
Its not like the $200 festivals, it’s $10 donation optional but you’re kinda a dick if you don’t donate because come on man.
If nothing else you can camp out in nature and be surrounded by cool people if you want or just hide away and camp far off by yourself and come say hi to me while I’m 3 hits of acid deep wearing yoga pants and a blouse being majestic as fuck. Worth $10 easy.
You meet all kinds of interesting people. One of my best buds is a video producer for LA times and covers interesting stories and won like academy or golden globe or some shit. One dude who was a writer on american horror stories, software engineer for audio equipment who I taught poker and does BJJ and one of my best buds. All super progressive.
Shits the best. If you want to escape but not out of Murica come to CA and I will show you the way.
Oh for to add age range. We’re on like anniversary 28 or some shit so tons of OGs been around forever so tons of 50-60 year olds and age range is young 20’s-60s and you will not be judges at all for anything. Thats a big thing there. Other than being an asshole/violent/thief.
And everyone shares. Need water? Hungry? Want a hit of acid? Need a beer? Someone will ask you plenty of times.