Fair enough. A few thoughts though. First off this idea that the government would provide UHC and the doctors would be the first on the chopping block doesnāt really seem like a certainty to me. The types of people who would pass UHC here wouldnāt be anti-labor. Secondly lots of other professions earn less in those countries also. So? Lastly this is a moral issue. The fact a tiny portion of our country would possibly make less to alleviate the suffering of literally tens of millions should not be controlling.
That being said tax the rich, pay the doctors the same.
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Ive been thinking about this a lot.
US history makes more sense when you compare it to South and Central America. Its a history of elites and oligarchs manipulating the reigns of power.
The differences lie in a) greater natural resources b) the industrialised north east which does have more in common with Europe and c) the benefits of winning ww2 and being a global empire.
This means its richer, more industrialised and more powerful.
In europe the people had to actually take some power from the kings and landowners and had to build structures and systems to do that.
In the US. Like most of the americas, decolinization was just the handing over of power from one group of elites to another. And the people never really ever changed that.
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Only cut the pay from the doctors that complain imo
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This is another one of those progressive issues where it also needs to be tax the middle class if we want to do policy properly. We can do single payer and compensate doctors fairly, but it means increasing government reimbursement rates meaningfully. Paying for that means we need to increase middle class taxes.
The trade off (and Iād argue the moral one) is rich people keep a lot less, the middle class keeps less, the poor get healthcare, and no one has to worry about running bad and losing insurance.
Tax the rich, but we (not you personally) have to get over this aversion to raising middle class taxes. They need to go up, probably meaningfully.
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Collect the taxes the rich owe first.
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Iām sorry but this is BS. I didnāt say that doctors canāt be fairly compensated, I explicitly say differently. I also donāt use it as an argument either to ādeny peopleās health careā. You also did say you were smarter than me. You said I was confused by propaganda and was like a āhillbillyā that voted against their own interest. Backing off now like you werenāt saying you were smarter than me about being a doctor is absurd.
I, repeatedly, use those facts to explain why doctors as a whole wouldnāt support single payer as presented thus far in the USA. Youāve presented no evidence or even a somewhat coherent argument to the contrary. I, again, do not use it as an argument against single payer health care and Iām careful to point out in damn near every post that it isnāt that. My only real question is how did you miss it?
Also the great irony here is that the only person who actually made an argument to deny people health care is you. You explicitly argued against the ACA thinking that not passing it would magically lead to single care based on an extremely weak position. Thereās about 23 million people who have insurance instead of nothing because of that law.
Of course! Do that now. UHC actually happening is a 10-20 years down the road thing, thereās lots of time before we need to broadly raise taxes. But we will need to be prepared to win the argument to broadly raise taxes when the time comes (rich paying fair share obviously part of the needed groundwork)
You are buying propaganda and your decade+ of post history proves it. The fact you have been knowledgeable on Covid does not make your other horrible takes ok.
You are the one with the posts full of insults btw. As I often say to people who bitch when I call them out for Fox News takes the solution is simple. Donāt post that bullshit. The BUT WHAT ABOUT THE DOCTORS tears from a literal doctor that you expect us to accept as a fair and balanced argument as you insult me in each post is really nice though. No one can see through it.
You are defending a system that literally kills people for money(or the lack thereof). You are also a literal labor pawn for the powers that be. And you are defending them. They are your enemy as well.
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I think mosdef covered it, but non-profit hospitals are a huge money maker. All non-profits have freely available tax returns by law, so go have a look at some of them. Making a hospital non-profit will likely do very little to reduce health care costs.
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Yup thatās exactly why CN acting like that makes it ok was completely ridiculous.
Iām sure there is some sort of health care overhaul that is possible that doctors only take a small cut.
If you add up all doctorās salaries, that only accounts for 10% of all health care spending.
Thereās a lot of fat to cut in that other 90%. But just expanding medicare is probably not the way to do it.
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I mean who here is in favor of just expanding medicare? M4a was never that.
The complete lack of honesty from you is ludicrously frustrating. When confronted with why not passing the ACA would have been a disaster and basic facts of the USA medical system, you assume that means I support all of that instead of what I actually post. Why bother at all? You already know what I think right?
Arenāt you Canadian? Donāt you already have the health care?
More ad hominem attacks. Where have I been ādishonestā.
Hereās all that matters. The arguments behind UHC being impossible are driven by greed. Your arguments are driven by greed. Iām sure thatās coincidence.
No I donāt know what you think but I can make some decent deductions based on your post history.
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In theory yes, in practice not really. We have universal access to most health care, but thatās quite different from universal timely access to all necessary health care. Which is ok. But I do run into a lot of physicians in Canada who have the view that obviously more health care should be made available to people that need it and obviously doctor pay is not too high.
Doctors in the UK are passionately in favour of the public system. Pay and conditions issues absolutely come up, but its normally at the margins. I.e. better conditions and pay for younger doctors, etc.
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Right here:
Yup thatās exactly why CN acting like that makes it ok was completely ridiculous.
At no point do I say that itās ok because of doctorās salary. At no point do I say any of this is OK. In fact, I explicitly and repeatedly say otherwise. See:
Your ādeductionsā are just laziness, nothing more. You arenāt able to deal with how your plan would have taken insurance away from millions with a small, at best, chance of getting the end game that you wanted. Itās a bad plan that you could only think would work if you didnāt understand American politics and how many major groups are against your plan.
Divide and conquer. Get doctors and hospitals to believe that single payer will effectively be funded by redirecting insurance company profits (and also taking money from pharmaceutical and medical equipment companies) without being made to give up much. If thatās not enough, then doctors and hospitals can be forced to take a haircut after the new system is entrenched.