You are right, that’s the failure.
That is the whole point. I don’t understand the assumption that America needs to deal with it.
My plan is better than your plan
Well we’ve already helped create a shit load of terrorist orgs that have countless recruiting abilities because of our continued actions.
Being confident that we are doing more good than bad by staying our current course is just as ridiculous as being confident that pulling everyone out will have good outcomes. None of us know which one is better or not but it sure as hell doesn’t seem like we are doing a lot of good besides flooding the regions with weapons to enemies and foes (can’t have such a one sided conflict if we want to be there long term) and enriching the MIC year after year (let’s see how big the defense budget gets under Biden). Erik Prince sure loves that we stay there as long as we can because he makes a lotttt of money from our little excursions
That’s correct. I am not in favour of US military intervention in the US as good policy. I agree that US ME policy had been a disaster for the world. I just think its naive to think that exiting is easy or has no consequences. This is Ron Paul level political thought.
Probably the best first step to getting out of the ME is AOC Presidency + Green New Deal. Dependence on fossil fuels is the whole reason the US cares about the ME anyway.
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Maybe. My plan would include massive transformation of energy policy first, which we probably agree on.
Isnt it more like “You drove your car into a store window and now you have to personally rebuild the window, but every day somebody else drives through the window you are remaking and you have to keep starting over from scratch?”
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Meh, Clovis has a point. Respecting and upholding the law is a norm itself, so passing/reforming laws won’t do a whole lot if the people who enforce those laws don’t care. Possibly with a strong citizen suit provision that provides attorney’s fees or something attached, you could make it more likely to be respected, but then you are still relying on a court system to go along with favorable interpretations of those provisions.
All that is to say, I think we are really fucked, at least at the Federal level, of ever returning to some kind of functional governance.
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It’s a really fucked up Catch 22, imo. Similar to “violence begets violence,” this situation is one where democratic norms are being eroded like a child’s sandcastle at high tide and the only way to restore them is by using extremely anti-democratic, authoritarian measures to steal and hold power to try to “fix” the system. But as soon as you do that, it just further enforced this authoritarianism-to-get-what-you-want norm. On top of that, if history is any guide, the most likely outcome for us if we were to take power back from the Republicans in this way would be to rebrand the same corruption and illegality with a leftist label with very little of the leftist substance.
sure, if the second guy driving through the window was the passenger of the first car
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I just hearted a watevs post. Good sign or the end is nigh?
Only time will tell. :)
Watevs, just want to say I have been enjoying the conversation today.
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We don’t even need their oil anymore, WTF are we even doing over there?
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Trump was mucking around a few years ago then forgot about them. More incompetence than malevolence.
We should just stay neutral in the Middle East and sell weapons to both sides in a Saudi vs Iran conflict.
Its actually pretty convoluted. The US produces a ton of oil and imports oil, and exports some as well. Also oil demand has been on the rise globally so there are a ton of trade considerations as well. I think the ME produces about 20% of the world’s oil.
It’s more like the US drove a car into a window and refuses to appoligies for the lies that made them do it, then they double down on those lies for over 20 years while the car is still exploding killing the shop assistants and their still not removing the car or bombs and instead provided cover for more US cars to wreck shops willy nilly, while bombing the assistants for daring to protect themselves and there family’s have been bombed too and they were NOT EVEN IN THE INITIAL ACCIDENT.
How about the US appoligies for all those innocent kids killed over there and then the US just might have a chance at reconciliation.
And provide the funds to rebuild their communities and allow them time to do it, in there own way.
Oh that’s right, theres $ over there the US desperately needs over kids lives.
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I agree with all this
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You know what you call people who approach games, contests, competitions and battles the way the democrats do?
Losers.
Absolutely, unquestionably, guaranteed losers.
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I know, I know. If you ain’t cheating, you ain’t trying.