Wikipedia has a nice table of Trump’s recent polling
It’s the same argument we always have. Every president is bad. Some were less bad than others.
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I’m not going to say Obama was good when I think he was bad to appease the right.
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Straight up. And the argument in context of this forum is pretty out there when there are zero conservatives posting
Yup, afraid so. Who is undecided about trump at this point?
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I mean I’ve said Obama on a curve was not bad comparably. He still was a bad President for what I want out of them.
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It’s a boring argument because we’re equivocating on “good.” There isn’t actually a disagreement if we’re careful about language.
I think he was naive, but I also think it’s a bit understandable. Obama thought he could work with the GOP, and hadn’t realized how intransigent they’d become. The GOP had dialed it up to 11 and he thought they were still at 7 or 8. By the time he figured it out he’d lost the Senate and could only rule by Executive Order. If HRC had won in 2008, I think she was ready for them to be 100% noncooperative, but Obama wasn’t.
I also think there was a lot of Jackie Robinson syndrome* with Obama, not wanting to be the “angry black president.” It led to him getting outmaneuvered and stonewalled at every turn. But I think to call that “appeasement” is too strong.
*It’s said that Robinson wasn’t even a top 5-10 player in the Negro Leagues, but he was chosen as the pioneer because he had the emotional makeup to put up with the abuse, thus opening the door for other players later.
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And what about in the context of Trump’s statement?
No I’m not saying he was appeasing. Probably the wrong word anyway. I’m saying your post comes off as if I can’t say Obama was bad because the right will use it or something.
I don’t care what the right says about him. I think he was bad for his actions and policies and I’m not going to hide that view because trump or the right.
I’ve laid out who I am talking to specifically in this forum.
I often find these presidential criticisms to be lacking perspective.
For instance: were the founding fathers these beacons of virtue that our society embraced before the social media age? No. But how can we know how to judge them without also knowing the true cost of democracy.
Take George Washington, for instance. Owned slaves, helped start the French and Indian War, etc…
He also led us through the Revolutionary War. At one point he had his own men shoot their best bros to stomp out mutiny. This after they were being stiffed for months and were starving.
Do you really think he really wanted to do that? Would the future have worked out better for oppressed people the world over if the Brits had won?
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Obama was also the first president to govern under the microscope of social media and a 24 hour news network dedicated to undermining his every moment of existence.
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Props to the creator of the new thread title! Incidentally, I remember those words in order from yesterday. I’m like a smart person.
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I don’t think anyone is saying don’t criticize him. But in the context of Trump’s claim that he won because Obama was so terrible, it’s ridiculous to agree with that.
This David Shor’s Unified Theory of the 2020 Election was posted here a little while ago. One of Shor’s big takeaways–something that the right seems to have learned 100 years earlier than the left–is “you should talk about popular issues, and not talk about unpopular issues.” I think that’s applicable here.
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The same mechanisms of social media that allow us to mainline leftist content allow tons of people to filter out political content. Most non political communities ban political content because people find it unpleasant.
My theory is these people are persuadeable simply by whoever shouts the loudest regardless of accuracy. One reason I don’t criticize the wackier lefty stuff here is while it is wacky, it is still useful for pursuing my center-left goals to raise the volume.
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I don’t really think those things had anything to do with him crushing OWS and bailing out the banks, for instance. He did those things because he is beholden to corporate interests in the same way that all corporate politicians are. No one made him go yachting with Richard Branson after his presidency.
I think we’re doing something different here. You’re talking about trolling conservatives outside the forum, I’m talking about a discussion within a completely left wing forum.
I agree lots of people are checked out of politics entirely but no one voting in november hasn’t made up their mind. Again I’d be happy to be wrong.
Obama didn’t bail out the banks. That was definitely Bush.
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