https://mobile.twitter.com/susie_dent/status/1303970143316344832
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gee i wonder what could be the rush to finish up in the next say 45 days?
Are there any details of the UAE and Bahrain / Israel peace agreements? Like, I’m not real smart, but I thought the big issue in the middle east was Israel stealing Palestinian land and keeping the Palestinians impoverished?
Like, is this equatable to me announcing that I’ve made peace with a neighbor 10 houses down from me that I don’t have a beef with while my immediate next door neighbor keeps flinging dog poo over my fence?
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Bingo.
Well except for you’d be the one flinging the poo since Palestine isn’t involved in the talks.
So weird as all the white nationalists hate his guts for being gay. He and Stephen Miller must have watched The Believer too many times.
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What kind of late term abortion is this? Has this already been taped? Will anyone fact check him? How many of the *undecideds” will later determined to be republican operatives?
This will be all pre-selected trumpkins asking questions like “why are you so awesome?”
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I’d say Storr’s thesis is that it’s a matter of survival for humans to construct a model of the world and the objects in it so that we have sufficient control to get what we need. And the most important objects in the world are other people. The human brain, he says, builds models based on story. We don’t really exist as humans until we begin to construct a story for ourselves. In that story, we are the heros. The limited information we collect about the world through our senses gets incorporated into that story. Once the story begins, that information gets filtered. We tend to reject information that conflicts with the story we tell ourselves and add things that support it. (In a good story, the kind in books and movies, the conflict becomes too great, and the story is torn apart to begin again. Or not, with tragic consequences.)
And that’s pretty much it. I don’t recall Storr addressing what you call a toxic abundance of self-esteem, but it might come about naturally as a result of a specific conflict between personal story and reality. Same with toxic positivity-vanity.
Where do you see justified uses in invoking shame to control people? Are there situations where you see shame is being used as a tool where instead encouraging a person’s well-being could be equally or more effective?
My guess is that shame is ultimately rooted in a fear of loss of control, which is basic according to Storr. Without control, we die. Shame comes about when humans gather in groups, which we do because it boosts our chances of survival as long as we can cooperate and make sure no one is shirking. Shame gives us the mechanism to make that happen. The stories that are shared by a group specify what kind of behavior is virtuous and which is shameful. Shame is to be avoided because it can lead to loss of status and ultimately exclusion from the group (so loss of control and maybe death). So shame isn’t necessarily in conflict with well-being in that it tells you what actions to avoid if you know what’s good for you. All of this isn’t to say that there isn’t a line where it can be abused to manipulate people in ways that are unhealthy for them and/or for the group.
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Repost, but this is an important development.
https://twitter.com/costareports/status/1304507010835263489?s=20
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These are good points. I appreciate you educating me too about your reading of Storr. I think there are purposes in mechanisms to encourage community values and social contracts. Shame is a powerful tool to generate desired reactions, but I think it is ultimately destructive beyond any potential benefit.
Perhaps I define shame differently than you are defining it, but I define shame as the conviction that a person doesn’t deserve to exist. That they are inherently flawed. They don’t think “I made a mistake” but feel inherent self-worth and will thus pursue meaningful growth.
They think “I am a mistake” and thus are motivated into nihilism, or narcissism, or the relentless pursuit of self interest, because there isn’t any room for compassion for your fellow man if you’re filled with shame toward yourself. Shame kills a person’s desire and ability for connection and growth.
So just to not get too far off topic for the thread, Trump was the subject of pretty terrible treatment as a child. He was never taught how to acknowledge and process his feelings of shame. He was taught to use it as a tool for power. So we see him compulsively seeking enough validation to quiet his own feelings of shame while he also invokes shame as a tool to control those around him.
As you can see from his supporters, the people who are most easily manipulated by weaponized shame are generally just like Trump. They use emotions as tools and weapons. When it comes to processing shame and maturing into healthy spaces of growth, vulnerability, and community, they’re triggered out of their minds because to feel a little of anything real and good means they will also need to finally feel the shame they’ve repressed Jordan Peterson style.
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