The Great Pronoun Debate

I don’t want to speak for 6ix here, but I assumed he was taking a more global perspective. If you’re living the relative poverty and misery that massive portions of the world live in, then you probably prioritize socioeconomic material conditions.

I agree with you if you’re limiting it to US and other first world countries. But in those cases there is a minimum socioeconomic status that is almost assumed in these discussions.

What the hell happened to lirva? She was awesome, unique perspective and definitely open. Did she not make it over here?

It’s not just the US.

Above is kind of the point (or what I assume is his point). Ask them which they would prefer

  1. A good job, but everyone uses their non-preferred pronouns
  2. Everyone treats them with respect, and uses preferred pronouns, but no source of income and aren’t sure where their next meal is coming from

They would all pick the first. I don’t think that’s really that controversial. Obviously they would love to have both, and it’s sad they can’t. I assume everyone agrees with that.

I want to reiterate that I’m just trying to interpret what 6ix was saying. Maybe he’ll be back along to sort it all out.

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The point is they don’t have a good job BECAUSE they are trans.

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Probably not in the context of this thread given the joke relies on bad gender stereotypes. I’ll remove. My apologies.

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That’s true but irrelevant to what he is saying (or what I think he is saying). The point was if you could only choose one of the two as being more important, which would you choose?

Just because the two are correlated doesn’t change the relative priorities.

It would be like saying owning a yacht is more important than having food, because everyone who has a yacht obviously has plenty of access to food. That may be true. But in isolation, if you could only choose one of food or a yacht, you pick food.

And, no I don’t think that the pronoun issue is analogous to the yacht. That’s not the important part of the comparison.

And my point is simply that gender identity can be a matter of existential concern too. People have lost their jobs. People have lost their housing. People have received inferior healthcare. People have been straight up murdered. Because of their gender identity.

Now I’m not naive enough to think that posting my pronouns on my twitter bio is going to change all that. And I understand the critique that “cultural issues are used to get people to vote against their economic self-interests.”

At the same time, I just hate that some folks who do seem to have a genuine desire to improve economic conditions sometimes, in their desire to make progress on the economic issues, seem to downplay or trivialize how much the “social issues” can impact the day to day lived experiences of members of marginalized communities. When the doctors at my Catholic university wouldn’t prescribe me the medicine I needed because it could also be used as birth control, the size of my bank balance or my tuition check didn’t matter. When a few guys decided to jump my girlfriend and me because we had told one of them we weren’t interested in a threesome, they didn’t check our W-2’s before throwing down, y’know.

Tl/dr: different things can be matters of survival to different people.

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Yeah, I agree with all of this. I’d also be surprised if 6ix didn’t.

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I’ve tried to delete the quoted portion so as to go along with your intent, but it won’t allow it so I’ll remove my post in it’s entirety also.

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Kinda OT, but what is going on to cause bisexuals to have drastically higher rates of poverty than all other cisgender groups?

So, no nuanced incremental path to your preferred outcome?

So why are people “choosing” to live openly as trans even though it leads to poverty?

By choose, ill be clear im talking about outward expression of gender.

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Well it really depends on the person and the situation. These calculations are complex and multifactorial.

For example, if living openly trans is likely to reduce your income by 20% maybe you pick that. On the other hand if it reduces your income by 90% then maybe you decide to stay in the closet.

You ignored all the previous posts. Maybe take a rerun at them before asking dykedaisy to put in some extra work just for you.

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As a society. Whats the best thing we can do to help the economic prospects of trans people then?

Which society? Answer is different for Burundi vs USA.

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Thank you for linking the post, not sure why you wouldn’t just do that in the first place though.

Why is that different? What do you know about trans rights in burundi (or other parts of africa)?

Yes I remember the conversation we had about putting your race in your email sig… no wait actually what are you talking about?