I completely agree with this.
I think Trump listened to Putin or Putin surrogate takes on issues (hence the “#actually Crimea is Russian” takes at the G7 or wherever it was) but that was as far as it went. But if Trump was like “actually fuck it YOLO, I’m selling anti-tank munitions to Ukraine” there was nothing Putin could do. That’s where the argument is.
And the easiest way to manipulate him is by an ongoing exchange of favors for favors….which Trump is open to…within the constraints of wanting to be re-elected/not be impeached.
The POTUS is not a dictator. (Yet.). Trump can’t unilaterally do most of the things that Putin would want him to. He was held back by the strength of America’s institutions in resisting change.
Trump was a Russian asset. It’s just that he fell more into the category of useful idiot than of actual agent actively working on behalf of Russia.
Read the story yourself. Where is the benefit to Putin here? It’s not like the Russians were pro-ISIS. It’s just Trump running his mouth like he always did.
The idea that Trump would pass classified information to Russian agents in monitored meetings, as opposed to via back channels, is actually incompatible with any claim that there was ongoing collusion with Putin during the administration. If there were, he’d use back channels.
I suppose Trump extorting Ukraine was totally unrelated to his shady-ass financial dealings with Russia.
Sure. Again no one is fucking disputing this. I’m just not on the Trump was an actual ‘Manchurian Candidate’ bandwagon
Look at what he was asking for! It was all petty political bullshit.
My understanding is that Trump could withdraw the US from NATO at the stroke of a pen. It’s possible I am wrong about this, but the power to sign and withdraw from treaties is at the disposal of the President, is my understanding.
Edit: I looked it up. Any time prior to January 2019, Trump could have withdrawn from NATO with a signature. After that the House legislated to require approval, but this legislation is on uncertain legal ground.
Yeah, I read it. The story explains why it’s a big deal:
While the president has the authority to disclose even the most highly classified information at will, in this case he did so without consulting the ally that provided it, which threatens to jeopardize a long-standing intelligence-sharing agreement, the U.S. officials said.
Blowing up an intelligence-sharing agreement seems like a big deal? Possibly giving Russia clues into how the intel is collected is obviously a big deal.
But hey, there’s isn’t a signed novelty check from Putin so I guess it’s just a happy coincidence for Putin that Trump’s big mouth undermines Western alliances.
That Putin could force Trump to do things against his will is a strawman position. Only way that could work is extreme blackmail and unfavorable facts, which Putin never released by the way, could be countered by the typical Trump deflection.
Yes it’s a big deal. But as ChrisV points out occam’s razor suggests it’s an asshole telling secrets to look big and important.
In 2017 he revealed to Duterte that two nuclear submarines were positioned off North Korea (the location of nuclear subs is always highly classified). In 2019, and I know you’ll remember this one, he tweeted out a classified image of damage to a facility in Iran that revealed the US’s spy satellite image resolution capabilities. He’s a blabbermouth moron.
I mean donations to a political official by foreign governments are illegal for obvious reason and that you guys are conceding that is the reality of what happened on an ongoing basis to the POTUS at a massive scale is a big deal! Stuff like that, rather than cartoonish double agent stuff, is how most intelligence operations work!
I honestly thought this was the consensus opinion ^, that Trump was Putin’s Useful Idiot. Was he useful? Sure! The rise of Trump has accelerated the downfall of American democracy. Trump also tended to say things like “you think that’s bad? America has done bad things too,” which Putin loves to hear because he says things like that all the time. But he was still Trump, still an idiot, too dumb to execute any complex nefarious plans.
The “Chapo Brain” take is that “RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA” has become a convenient Liberal scapegoat for all the bad things that are happening. No need to look inward and critically self-assess your shortcomings as a party when you can blame Russia/Putin/Trump.
Listen to yourself! Why are complex nefarious plans worse than simple, straightforward nefarious plans??? KISS!
I’m honestly not sure if this is sarcasm or not so I’ll respond as if it’s serious–fine, pretend I didn’t say “complex.” Trump is also probably too dumb to execute simple nefarious plans either. I think this is kind of the point Chris is making, too–when you start to dig into the details, there isn’t much evidence at all that Trump was executing any sort of nefarious plans when it came to Russia. He was just a useful idiot.
It’s obvious unless someone produces the recorded tapes or some written transaction of Putin telling tRUmp to do something nefarious it must all be some fever dream cooked up by the deep state to malign his good character. It’s laughable.
Look back at the individuals Trump most obsessed about during the Mueller investigation—Christopher Steele, Andrew McCabe, Bruce Ohr, Peter Strzok, Lisa Page, and Robert Mueller himself—what they all have in common is that they are experts in the Russian mob. This too must be some cooky coincidence.
There was a limit to what Trump could do…. once we all decided that is was really bad that Trump was executing a simple, straightforward nefarious plan with Putin, launched the bipartisan Mueller investigation against him and watched him with a hawk’s eye.
And I’m not trying to belabor the point or continue the entrenched back-and-forth, so I’ll try to tie it back to something that matters
There just isn’t that much there when it comes to Russia directly colluding with Trump. The more attention that gets paid to Russiagate (and the more effort that goes into “solving the Russia problem” or whatever) the less attention and effort that goes towards actually doing anything meaningful.
Literally nobody on this board likes The Democratic Party. Maybe Iron. The “covering for Dems” line is idiotic.
I truly don’t know what the hell you otherwise smart people need to see to realize something is up (something more than “stupid Trump likes dictators and flattery).”
Donald Trump doesn’t give a fuck about anything except his own enrichment and aggrandizement. The idea he magically gave a flying fuck (and followed through, always to Putin’s benefit!) about stuff like Crimea and NATO is patently absurd. Let alone stuff like throwing out the translators and just his stupid fucking face at all these meetings:
