I think it’s time to make this it’s own thread.
One of the goals of protest can be to provoke a disproportionate response that makes the other side look bad. What kind of disproportionate response might occur?
https://twitter.com/Liz_Andromeda/status/1783618711137505445?t=huCctrqSqk3IkdpAh6H0Jw&s=19
Here’s what I’m confused about - what threat are the protestors posing, even in theory? Is the argument that by chanting things like “from the river to the sea” they are being antisemitic and therefore must be removed by force from campuses?
To be clear, I’m not asking if “from the river to the sea” is antisemitic, or whether that would be enough to justify force. I’m asking if on any of the campuses any of the protestors have been violent, or threatened violence.
Maybe some outside agitator wants to stir up something? idk, it really seems like they’ve overplayed their hand badly here, no one who’s been to college thinks these NYU kids are Hamas fighters, at lot of Boomers have extremely unpleasant memories of the National Guard firing on kids, even by Fox News standards this is hard to believe.
A lot of Boomers care more about order than justice. In the immediate aftermath of Kent State, a Gallup poll had 58% of Americans blaming the students.
What’s the age breakdown of that? How many people who were teens in the 60’s are hyped to see the Guard roll up today?
Id bet more than you think. Unfortunately, that generation is very much “Fuck ya’ll, got mine” and anybody that threatens what “got mine” is, is considered a spoiled brat, or a threat.
Gotta think the sniper exponentially less likely to shoot someone than the rookie cop face to face to protestors. Maybe should just put 100 snipers up there instead
my mom and dad were together in their dorm room looking down on the parking lot when the person got shot in kent with that famous picture of the girl crying. they said it fucked them up for a while, well my mom did, my dad grunted.
they also said the national guard made everyone leave campus so they went home for a few days. i said that college-aged me probably wouldn’t have left, like fuck them. that’s where the action was. my mom deadpanned, “wiper, we had just watched them shoot and kill 4 people not an hour earlier.” fair point.
i’m going to dinner with them this weekend, gonna ask about that week again. my mom still has a photo of her and my godmother putting flowers in two of the national guardsmen rifles a few days before. kind of a stark difference between protests then and protests now…
I haven’t seen the cross tabs, but I know it was a Gallup poll from the day after.
How many Boomers think poorly of “kids these days”?
I went to grad school at Emory and thus get emails from the school. The administration sent this tonight:
Dear Emory Community,
I’m writing to share further information about the events that took place on our Atlanta campus earlier today and the actions taken by the Emory Police Department (EPD).
At 7:41 a.m. a few dozen protestors arrived on campus. When they arrived, these individuals ignored and pushed past EPD officers stationed on the Quad and set up tents in an area where equipment and materials were staged for Commencement. Based on their actions and refusal to confirm their connection to Emory, EPD made the assessment that these individuals were not Emory community members. Officers with the Atlanta Police Department and Georgia State Patrol were then called to provide further assistance. Around this time, several social media accounts announced a protest and occupation of the Quad and issued a public call for non-Emory community members to join them.
EPD issued multiple warnings at different intervals advising individuals in the encampment that they were trespassing on private property and instructing them to leave. When those requests were ignored, Atlanta Police and Georgia State Patrol officers assisted EPD with dispersing the crowd and taking individuals into custody for criminal trespass.
During this process and the subsequent confrontations, objects were thrown at police officers. To our knowledge at this time, an individual attacked a non-EPD officer and appears to have been tased. Video of this incident has been widely shared on social media. Based on current information, this individual is not a member of the Emory community. Due to the direct assault of officers, law enforcement released chemical irritants into the ground to assist with crowd control.
As of this message, we have been notified that 28 individuals have been arrested, including 20 Emory community members, some of whom have been released. We are working with responding agencies to expedite the release of any Emory community members who remain in custody.
Our primary goal today was clearing the Quad of a disruptive encampment while holding individuals accountable to the law.
Emory Econ Professor came across the violent arrest of a protester on campus and asked the police, with shock, “What are you doing?” That’s all that prompted an officer to hurl her to the ground and handcuff her.
This is not an accurate description of what happened.
You can stand there and scream at them all you want, but she crouched down and put her face right next to a scrum of officers who were actively struggling with somebody else. She was well within reach of at least one of their weapons. That’s just not going to end well.
Second, once you are physically restrained and ordered to the ground, the time for reasoning and resistance has passed. She tried to twist out of his grip and ignored repeated orders. Of course she’s going to get “hurled” to the ground. Even if you think your arrest or detention is unlawful, physical resistance is dangerous and stupid. Shut your mouth, get a lawyer, and hope their body cameras didn’t “malfunction”.
Note: when recording police activity, you usually don’t have to stay a certain number of feet away, regardless of what the cops tell you. In Arizona, they actually passed a law prohibiting filming within 8 feet of police activity and it was quickly blocked by a federal judge. What you can’t do is interfere with or obstruct the officers’ activities. I wouldn’t be surprised if that professor has already been released without charges, but if she is prosecuted it will almost certainly be for something like “obstructing” or “hindering” the police.
This is completely wrong and not what the law allows police officers to do. There is tons of case law on the force that police can use in terms of effecting an arrest, and they can’t just slam anyone to the ground who exhibits any degree of resistance.
The law says that the force police can be used has to be reasonable, considering - the severity of the crime at issue (here at most it was a misdemeanor hindering police), whether the suspect poses an immediate threat to the police (clearly no - she was a small, old, unarmed woman), and whether she is actively resisting or attempting to escape (this is maybe closer, but her resistance was pretty passive and she wasn’t trying to escape). She would have an excellent case of excessive force against cops - people have won cases with much worse facts.
I’m totally okay with someone hindering or obstructing a cop from kneeling on a student’s head.
Sheesh. That email is on the side of the boot. For sure
That’s a lot of words to justify the assualt and arrest of a non violent economics professor. What the actual fuck.
What was she wearing? She was asking for it?
I guess I have not expressed myself clearly. Describing the sequence of events as entirely predictable is not intended to be a justification for the overreaction and excessive force.
It will be great if the officer faces accountability and consequences. I predict there will be none; his actions will be found to be within department policy.
My problem was with the sensational rage-bait tweet. “That’s all that prompted an officer to hurl her to the ground” is misleading to the point of dishonesty.
You certainly did not express yourself very clearly