Hire more Columbos.
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You’re sure they’re right. Right?
The cop who keeps forgetting his gun. That show is right up there with Twilight Zone, Star Trek Original, and The Simpsons in terms of quality and how realistic it was.
I can see that. I also wonder if the abolish now movement has honestly gamed out all the unintended consequences of massive action. It seems as if that is hand-waved/dismissed rather suspiciously in most debates.
Cutting police budgets 10% would be a phenomenal accomplishment for abolish. The reactionaries and reformers both want to increase policing.
that’s a misnomer
I think the key discrepancy is between starve the beast libertarian adjacents and the left of center on what yields the best results for safety without an undue effect on liberty.
It is telling that the StBLAs are so inclined to mischaracterize the dispute.
This whole “completely abolish the police and things will work out” is just a repeat of the anarcho-capitalism years. At best the alternative is going to be private security services made up of former cops which… will be much worse?
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I know what you want. I’ve seen the west wing. It’s a fantasy.
This is not the position of anyone that I know of who is an abolitionist. I’m curious which abolitionists have you read, organized with or spoken to who have led you to believe this is their POV?
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It seems to be the argument micro is having with keeed, but I’ll admit it is hard to figure out what micro is actually arguing for, so if that’s not his position then nevermind. If abolish is just different branding for reform, then I have no idea what anyone is arguing about.
Of course none of them have done any of that. I’ve posted about Rojava and the Zapatistas and Revolutionary Spain for years and none of the West Wingers ever look at it. PocketChads knows this and so he’s just telling them they are mischaracterizing everything and leaving it at that. He knows better than to waste his time. Well, he has told us a lot of real stories about mutual aid and defense in Richmond, but they won’t make the connection.
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Abolish the police is effectively saying to repeal and replace the police and, just like Obamacare, it makes sense for people to ask just what “replace” actually means.
I don’t think anyone really wants a society without laws and I don’t think anyone really wants a society where those laws are not enforced. For some people, “police” equals law enforcement, so they hear people calling for a lawless society when someone calls for abolishing the police.
While I am not going to say that I am fully in favor of abolishing the police, neither do I believe that existing law enforcement is something that can be reformed with a few tweaks. As I see it, the problem is that we have a militarized police force that is organized to protect the right to property more than the right to life. I’m not for abolishing property; I am merely for decreasing its importance relative to other rights. (If I were to write a book on political philosophy, it would be on my idea of the hierarchy of rights.)
So, I would divide the problem into two parts. We need a mechanism for the enforcement of laws that is not organized along pseudo-military lines. We need the laws to be written with more of an eye to protecting life over property.
I’m a big believer in the division of labor in society, so I reject the idea that law enforcement should be done through some sort of community organization where everyone shares equally in the burden of enforcing laws. I don’t think that is practical in any situation where the community can’t be governed through direct democracy. Doing so would require that society be organized as a collective of small communities where it is normal for people to belong to the same community for their entire life and that would require dismantling the transportation and communication infrastructure so that these communities can be isolated and forced to become more self-sufficient.
I believe that law enforcement should be done by a professional organization composed of trained specialists, but one that is not patterned after the military. I would suggest that a new idea of policing could require a college degree, if not for entry level, then for advancement into positions of greater authority. Beyond that, I’m in the JT boat of wanting to drive conversation and come up with a different way of talking about this subject.
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that is literally reform. You’re forming the police again.
Right, because that’s what the word abolish means.
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Which is also why “abolish” the police is terrible branding that does not poll well.
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Does that mean that you think that “repeal and replace Obamacare” is the same thing as “reform Obamacare”?
You can understand “abolish the police” to mean “abolish the idea of police as we currently know it”. I mean “you” in a generic sense. I’m not sure if you specifically have that sort of mental flexibility.
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Fuck off
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How do the Rojava and Zapatistas deal with murderers and thieves?
Anyone that doesn’t want to guillotine the middle class is just a west wing shitlib. But you want to have a serious conversation.