Summer LC thread

Is there, though? Like on any kind of grand scale? What’s your evidence for this? Who by? The pimp lobby?

I don’t want to be too glib - the problem certainly exists and is bad enough. But who is incentivized to downplay the scale of the problem? Sex workers working by choice? Surely not, right? They want the industry kept safe and they don’t want to compete with trafficked labor. Hardly anyone is even pro-sex work period. All you’re left with is a handful of libertarian outlets who are ideologically obliged to argue that sex work is not an exploitative industry. Meanwhile the groups incentivized to exaggerate the problem are numerous and powerful - politicians, law enforcement, NGOs, the media etc.

I am extremely skeptical of using the blunt instrument of law enforcement to solve social problems like this. As an example of the sort of thing that will happen, check out this article:

In our subsample of youth under the age of 18 who were, at the time of interview, engaged in survival sex, 33 individuals — 24% —had a pimp or trafficker, liberally defined as someone with whom the respondent shared their earnings. That definition raises questions of its own, and one young woman’s experience stood out as representative of those questions. Rena, who was 16 at the time of the interview, laughed when we asked if she had a pimp. She tipped her head toward one of her friends.

“That’s my pimp,” Rena giggled. She was an 18-year-old woman who helped Rena use the internet to get clients and was herself engaged in survival sex. The two young women pooled their money together to meet their shared living expenses; Rena’s friend/”pimp” gave her a place to stay after she ran away from home to escape sexual abuse from a family member. The friend/“pimp” taught Rena how to use the internet to find clients and, in Rena’s words, “become independent.”

Rena’s friend could be considered a sex trafficker under the current legal regime — a felony that carries decades in prison and a mandatory, lifelong inclusion on the sex offender registry. A large portion of the adult cases that met the criteria of “ever trafficked” in our study fell into this category. Rena’s friend/pimp began trading sex when she was underage, and therefore was counted, in our data, as a sex trafficking victim. She was also counted as a pimp. The distinction between victim and perpetrator is not as black and white as lawmakers claim, and federal and state policy must reflect this nuance if we are to truly reduce exploitation.

I do not want police wielding “human trafficking laws” against people like Rena’s friend who are themselves victims. When you draft sweeping laws to combat some Very Bad Thing, they will inevitably be used as a weapon by law enforcement in situations for which they are not intended. If people can’t answer basic questions about how big the problem they’re trying to solve is, or what exactly the definition of that problem is, it’s a huge red flag.

Edit: Like I certainly have evidence of law enforcement pretending things are “sex trafficking” when they are not - you probably already saw my posts (1, 2) on 2+2 about the Robert Kraft “sex trafficking” story. Do you have any actual examples of people trying to downplay genuine sex trafficking?

I’m not talking about internet commenters here, I’m talking about organized opposition to things like SESTA-FOSTA and media/institutional skepticism of the scale of human trafficking. Who out of those actors do you think have an agenda to downplay human trafficking?

This is just typical moral panic shit, where questioning the moral panic is automatically held to be a failure to take it seriously enough. It’s completely circular reasoning.

To be clear, I’m not like pro-prostitution or anything, particularly not streetwalking or in combination with drug addiction or anything like that. I described it as a “social problem” in my last post. What I am is extremely doubtful that trying to address it by amping up law enforcement will end well. It’s just the drug war all over again.

Progressives should absolutely be pro sex work and strong advocates of decriminalization.

The vast majority of sex workers are consenting adults engaging in one of the highest paid female professions. The moral panic over trafficking is simply religious smokescreen. Laws like SESTA-FOSTA make it more difficult to catch traffickers while making it much less safe to engage in consensual sex work.

It’s not a fallacy, it’s a fact. Trafficking is a horrible, but very small part of global sex work. It like saying all farming should be banned because some labourers are trafficked.

These are two very different things and you should not conflate them.

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They are not different in the sense that they should both be strong policy positions of the left.

Hi all, I’m a bit confused by this forum software. Can someone point me in the direction of any Clovis posts explaining that the Amazon fires are actually the result of too much fire prevention?

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I will also accept any explanation of why nuking hurricanes is actually a good idea. tia

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Late to the party here, but seems like a good time for my periodic brag for having a 600 a month mortgage payment in NYC.

Also, there is socialist housing available nearby. One year waiting lists for a 25k one bedroom across the street from one of the city’s biggest parks at the Amalgamated Coops. Feels like Google employees could set up something similar, can’t imagine what is missing.

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Normally I’d never share an ad but…wat

https://twitter.com/govbr/status/1169460144448495616?s=21

Bolsonaro’s not crazy, he’s only burning half of the forests down.

A 23-year-old Google employee lives in a truck in the company’s parking lot and saves 90% of his income

Well USA#1 has basically zero percent of its forest that’s never been cut down, so 60% a heck of a lot better.

A direct or grazing nuking of Alabama would be a powerful demonstration of how the President was right about the threat of Dorian.

What companies do you spend money at that are democratic?

I’m not an expert here but that seems like a pretty dubious claim.

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Yeah. The only time I interacted with a sex worker was in a greyhound bus station and she said she’d fuck me for $5. I don’t think she made a lot of money and I don’t think that kind of thing is a small percentage of sex workers. (I did not make the purchase, but I gave her a couple dollars when she said she needed money for diapers for her baby.)

There’s probably a huge difference between the mean and mode for the income of sex workers, and I have no idea how you even get that kind of data reliably.

There’s probably a massive gap between mean and median as well. It seems like an industry where the money scales to the point where someone of that class would be willing to be a prostitute and stops on a dime at that spot.

Well it’s a matter of degree, but no companies that have produced the number of incompatible device/cable combinations that Apple has. It was a joke but undemocratic is maybe not the right word. Elitist doesn’t quite cover it. It should imply restrictive, monopolistic and exploitative. Don’t want too offensive a word, though.