My take: I’m fine with them being excluded. There’s tons of evidence guys like Bonds, Clemens and many many others were seeking out and taking things they knew they shouldn’t be. Overall I don’t see taking steroids as being significantly different from other infractions that can occur, either on field or off of it. Sports have rules. You break them, there’s consequences. You can debate what the rules and consequences should be, but at some point, you have to either play by them or deal with the consequences. These guys got to play out their careers and collect millions and millions of dollars, possibly at the expense of other guys who tried to follow the rules. Exclusion is the only thing that they can be hit with at this point. They aren’t entitled to being enshrined.
I’ve heard most of the arguments for letting them in. I’m not convinced.
Steroids weren’t officially banned in the 90s and early 2000s. Yes and no. They were illegal to take without a doctors prescription. The commissioner clarified in 1991 that steroids were not allowed in baseball. There was no testing and no official punishment schedule like we have now, but that doesn’t mean taking them openly would have been tolerated or accepted.
It was never proven they were juiced. I’m not a lawyer but I’m pretty sure the “preponderance of evidence” standard for did most of these guys juice would’ve been met. The Mitchell report is pretty thorough. If you need to see them pee in the cup and it read positive to be convinced, fine. But the Mitchell report is enough for me.
They would’ve been HoF worthy even without the roids and or roids doesn’t help hand-eye coordination. The players clearly think they help make you a better baseball player, otherwise why risk it? And the fact that Bonds was on a HoF pace before his head grew 8 hat sizes in his 30s doesn’t really matter to me. The implication would be that if you’re an elite player then you can juice without consequences.
Everyone was juiced. This is maybe the most compelling but I don’t care. Sure, you don’t compare stats across eras. Saying Justin Verlander sucks because his best season was 24 wins and some guy in 1884 threw for 60 is absurd. I don’t care if these guys were the cream of the crop in an era where everyone was juiced. Everyone taking roids knew it was wrong and if caught they might catch hell. It’s the main reason BALCO exists. If no one who played in this era gets in due to steroid allegations, I’d be fine with that.
Other people who did roids got in. So what. “They did it too” doesn’t work when my kids say it. We can have a conversation about how far back we go and how much digging into players pasts we do on this, and if guys can or should be retroactively removed. But when evidence is clear and open, I don’t think you just ignore it because past players didn’t get the same level of scrutiny. Sorry Barry that you happened to juice at a time when the MLB decided to crack down on it.
Yeah I think that’s about all I have to say on this topic. I’ve thought this long before Trump said anything about it. It’s just another thing I disagree with him on.
Other people were bad in the past and got away with it doesn’t really convince me. If you want to start a “Ty Cobb should be removed because he’s a piece of shit” campaign be my guest. But it’s not a strong argument for giving the steroid era a pass.
This is the foundation of my “let them in” stance. It’s not literally everyone, but it was enough that it matters. And that, along with “other obvious juicers got in” amounts to selective prosecution.
I am a huge Red Sox honk. I love David Ortiz. But it is a stone-cold fact that he’s in the hall because he is jolly and lovable, and a big part of the reason Bonds isn’t is because he’s a world-class asshole. That is, imo, bullshit.
The only objective measure we have is stats, and that should determine who gets in and who doesn’t.
As a finesse, control pitcher who didn’t go past high school, I am not particularly sympathetic to juicers. I kind of get the later guys who used PEDs to supposedly heal faster, but you still have to obey the rules.
He’s in my top 5 hitters I care about despite me not giving af about baseball. Still, even I am not immune to the Ohtani effect. I still notice greatness like him and Pujols despite knowing nothing about baseball anymore.
Who decided who juiced and who didn’t? There are guys like Biggio who we decided didn’t juice, but are we sure? What about pitchers? Hitting numbers and home runs went up after steroid testing came in.
Also, Bonds was an ass to mainstream media, but was reportedly a great guy to those who showed him respect, but the media controls the narrative.
As an overlooked badly injured (junior year) player who had my deltus injected with steroids vs. surgery and all I ever did was tear it again every time I played from then on, I’m not sympathetic to juicing either.
I remember going to TCU baseball camp after junior year. I was in the cage doing what I did (not a power hitter) and their hitting coach peeked out from behind the machine and said ‘what high school do you go to?’ That was maybe the only compliment I ever got playing baseball lol.
I tore my shoulder again in that camp and decided not to play senior year. The coach fixed a hitch in my swing and I was hitting pure in that camp pissing off pitching coaches in scrimmages. The problem was my timing was very slightly off and I would hit ‘home runs’ just foul in the 3 pitch only at bats.
I very briefly started for my D3 college team. By that time I felt I could play 2B without injuring my arm and was good enough to play it on that team. I was there until I started missing practices because of classes. When the first game happened, the coach gave 2B to a terrible frat boy (he was their den mother) and I was moved to right field. You can guess what happened. I decided I was paying too much for my classes to miss any and quit.
I set my schedule up to be able to play the next season without missing classes and then they didn’t have a team lol. Career over.
Baseball also led to Ellis Burke chasing me down in an airport to talk with me. That was wild.
