Jman will have a great opportunity to tell us if he is category two or three. If he immediately starts posting in the subforum it will be clear he is three.
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Exactly. I think the major (possibly only) reason for the new forum is that it will clarify a lot of things for me personally.
I agree. As I stated a few days ago the roll out has been pretty poorly handled.
great news, most of the people involved werenât doing this.
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On the question of how the proposal could help or hurt the forum overall:
Things that are good for the forum:
- Having more contributors
- Maintaining an environment where contributors treat each other with respect
- Having more points of view
- Having more discussions
- Having higher quality contributions and discussions
- Attracting and retaining the administrators who keep the site functioning
Things that are bad for the forum:
- The opposite of the things listed above, including feuding and other harmful behavior
If the subforum is mainly a complement to the rest of the forum, I think it could be good for the entire forum. In that scenario, most users who are active in the subforum would be active in the main forum, there wouldnât be too much duplication of content between the two areas, and the subforum would offer a less restrictive environment for posters who value that as well as a natural place to have discussions that would be unpopular in the rest of the forum.
On the other hand, if the two areas act mainly as substitutes, I think it would be detrimental to the forum as a whole. In this scenario, the two areas would act largely as independent forums that share the same site. There would be much duplication of content across the two areas, most users would only be active in one of the areas, and there would be little interaction between the user base of each area.
Another thing to consider is that setting up the new subforum could add additional responsibilities to the administrators that make them more involved in resolving disputes than they want to be. I think setting up some ground rules would help lessen this type of problem. I will share my thoughts about how these ground rules might look later today.
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Of course he will get banned there. Thatâs exactly my point, is that weâre going to have jman and caffeine banned on the ânew forumsâ and jal and fidget banned on the âold forumsâ. Why donât we just come out and say that, instead of all the talk about just asking people to be nice, when that has been tried a million times for those folks and they simply cannot and will not be nice.
They wonât be banned if they donât start shit stirring there. They can choose not to.
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lol, this will never happen.
You donât have to worry about me trying to pal around with those guys.
2 + fucking 2 
We all made the move here together because of a collective desire - shame some decided to bring baggage as well.
Iâve never seen anything quite as disfunctional. If you donât get on with someone ignore them ffs - why all this aggression and getting in peoples faces all the time.
Said before the lying, hyperbole and misrepresentation in this episode, and all previous dramas, is what causes most of our problems - some just canât help poking everything with their shit-stick.
Hoping we can find something we can all agree on ⌠does this still work as a vehicle for UP togetherness?
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I need the YouTube of this with the reggaeton soundtrack added.
Hereâs my suggested ground rules. I didnât coordinate with others to create this list, so Iâm not speaking for anyone but myself. I did, however, try to address some concerns that have been raised in this thread and by PM.
- The subforum committee will draft a subforum charter that describes the subforumâs initial rules and guidelines (including how subforum moderators are appointed and what power are assigned to subforum moderators) and a process for modifying those rules. The draft will be cosigned by all committee members and be publicly posted before this proposal advances to a forum-wide vote.
- The subforum may assign its moderators any or all of the following abilities: editing, hiding or deleting posts and threads within the subforum; excluding users from the subforum on a temporary or permanent basis; and throttling or locking threads within the subforum. The subforum moderators may not use these abilities outside of the subforum. Subforum moderators will refrain from criticizing main forum moderators (in their capacity as moderators) in public threads or other public venues.
- The main forum will continue to be governed by the rules it has adopted and the RFC process. The main forum moderators will continue to have the following abilities: editing, hiding or deleting posts and threads; excluding users from the forum on a temporary or permanent basis; and throttling or locking threads. The main forum moderators may not use these abilities inside of the subforum. For avoidance of doubt, the main forum moderators may not exclude users from the subforum. Main forum moderators will refrain from criticizing subforum moderators (in their capacity as moderators) in public threads or other public venues.
- The subforum may appoint its own moderators. No additional subforum moderator may be appointed if that appointment would cause the number of subforum moderators to exceed the number of main forum moderators.
- Thread titles in the subforum may not contain words censored in the main forum. The RFC process in the main forum can be used to create additional rules about thread titles in the subforum, but it cannot be used to create rules about other contents of threads in the subforum.
- At their discretion, forum administrators may warn subforum and main forum moderators who violate rule 2 or rule 3 or remove their moderation powers. Moderators may also appoint arbitrators to review violations of moderator rules or otherwise resolve disputes between subforum and main forum moderators. Arbitrator assignments must be approved by majority vote among subforum moderators and majority vote among main forum moderators. At the request of a duly appointed arbitrator, the administrators will remove a userâs moderation powers.
@SenorKeed let me know what you think. If you think a charter is a good idea, I would ask you to propose a list of committee members who would be responsible for creating that.
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This is the part I really donât understand.
Looks good to me. Rather than come up with a committee list myself I would ask for volunteers who satisfy the following criteria:
- They are committed to building a community that emphasizes respect and tolerance for disagreements and differences.
- They are willing to participate in the governance of this community.
I volunteer for the committee.
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Itâs pretty simple. People get off on internet conflict.
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A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy (2003) (archive.org)
HackerNews is channeling unstuck right now.
Poster Krapp has entered the chat:
My eyes are getting misty as I hear the revolution-era flute and snare drum building in the background:
And loopz has maybe the best solution of all:
Suzzer, didnât you tell us that you only do about 2 hours of work a day? Or maybe that was a week? Anyway, I wonât ask you any more questions because I know you absolutely cannot stand this forum drama stuff.
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I have not been impressed with the âdebateâ in this thread, with certain parties seemingly more interested in perpetuating the same back-and-forth arguments.
I propose that any creation of a subforum be provisional in nature. Create this subforum and let it run for maybe three months, maybe six. Then have another vote on whether the subforum should continue to exist. The burden of proof shall be placed on the subforum denizens to show that its existence is warranted rather than on the anti-subforum people to show that it was a bad idea. Yes, this means that the subforum will be troll-bait and you will have to fend off attacks from malicious people seeking to wreck the experiment, but that is already the current state of the forum and I see the goal of the subforum as showing whether or not horizontal moderation is better at dealing with this problem, if drama and feuding are actually a problem.
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My guess is the subforum will make clear whether or not it should exist long before three months.
Yes, I need to be busier. Definitely an issue. Luckily I do have some real work to do today. Then some errands. Then a party with live human beings. All of which should lead me to disengage for a bit.
Anyway I just couldnât help think of this forum drama while reading that HN topic.
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