So what I’m hearing is that people will be banned from the new sub-forum.
Basically the only way this works out is jman and caffeine are banned from that forum, and jal and fidget are banned from the other, right? I’m not sure I see any other outcome, because surely “just start being nice” is lol.
The problem with pure horizontal modding is that even it’s most ardent supporters concede that bans may be needed.
Everyone agrees there are three categories of posters on every online forum,
the majority will be standard posters requiring very little or no behaviour correction, whether horizontal or simple bans,
some percentage will be generally ok but go nuts once in awhile requiring some correction,
a small percentage will be pure bad actors with no intention of making a positive contribution. No amount of horizontal modding will ever correct these people.
All of this fighting is about where to draw these lines and who belongs in which category.
The delineation is subjective.
I think horizontal modding has a good chance of handling many category two situations which will lead to less banning. That is a good thing.
I do worry that so many people in favour of the subforum have tied it to obvious category three posters like Sabo during this whole endeavour. This blind spot makes me less confident on the success of the overall goals.
As I said, it is subjective so hopefully I am mistaken.
Not making any good/bad judgements, just trying to think ahead.
The most stringent feuders get banned from their opposing forum, then come those in each forum that take up the mantle and complain about the bans; they get banned as well. Eventually we end up with the two factions banning out the other side over months/years of escalating drama and claims of bias/fascism/whatever.
That’s how I see it working since I don’t think that the folks in the new forum are going to suddenly start respecting and enjoying jman’s company, and that asking nicely for a years-long bitter feud to end isn’t going to really do much. And at the end of the day, the only tool to keep someone off a website is to ban them.
It’s going to be sad when instead of starting a PM to shitpost people the Captains don’t like they bandwagon posters they don’t like for having improper tone or failing a literacy test and exile them from “their” forum.
When you were married did you live in adjoining apartments?
This isn’t being presented as live and let live it’s being presented as do it our way or we’re leaving, but pay no attention to the crazy site Sabo created which is totally not what the new subforum is going to look like.
Sabo created the new site for precisely this reason. To create more chaos in this process.
Do you think people in the PM treated the people they didn’t like with objectivity and respect? If they can’t do it in private what makes you think they’ll do it in the subforum. You keep giving people shit for not being the change you want to see in the world while your Captains have done the exact same thing.
Be Nice™
This isn’t fair. I think the idea is using social pressure. It’s not like this is some pie in the sky idea. Social pressure is the primary tool to moderate behaviour in all societies, especially small ones like this forum. It has actual power.
Given the buyin of its posters there will heightened social pressure to make it work as well.
So the answer to no bans is…
bans
I’m pretty sure that’s what we have now.
Be Kind isn’t “lol”. Away from the incessant bullying and derision it’s much easier to be kind. And if anyone does enter to be derisory or bully I’m pretty sure that without an externally imposed moderation team they’ll be asked to desist pretty quickly.
“Be Kind” will probably cover all sorts of behaviours that people here think are acceptable, like broadcasting to the whole forum who you’ve added to your ignore list.
There are no number 3s, so problem solved.
What is shunning if not another word for banning? It would be nice if the people proposing this new thing would have the self awareness to remember the other times it was tried in our journey from 22 to here and the posters that prevented it from working then and at least pretend to address how this is going to be different.
It would also have been better if this had been proposed in the normal way for the forum and it didn’t turn out that most of the people involved hadn’t been shitposting people in a PM and crowing about the mods they had trolled.
How many times were you asked to change your behavior to be less disruptive? How many times did you claim Wookie hated you so you weren’t going to change for that son of a bitch?
Why do you expect us to believe you’re going to be able to change your behavior if someone else asks you?
Fidget was number 3
Exactly how I feel, which is why I’m voting yes.
I don’t like how this all happened, but I’m voting for the lesser of two evils here.
I don’t expect you to believe anything right now. You’ll be able to judge for yourself when it starts instead of prejudging now.
How much time do you spend here reading posts? Maye it’s me but I only see you post here when moderation issues are being talked about.
If you look at fidget’s profile I think you’ll come to a different conclusion.
And this is how the bandwagoning will start.
To understand why dwarfs and trolls don’t like each other you have to go back a long way.
They get along like chalk and cheese. Very like chalk and cheese, really. One is organic, the other isn’t, and also smells a bit cheesy. Dwarfs make a living by smashing up rocks with valuable minerals in them and the silicon-based lifeform known as trolls are, basically, rocks with valuable minerals in them. In the wild they also spend most of the daylight hours dormant, and that’s not a situation a rock containing valuable minerals needs to be in when there are dwarfs around. And dwarfs hate trolls because, after you’ve just found an interesting seam of valuable minerals, you don’t like rocks that suddenly stand up and tear your arm off because you’ve just stuck a pick-axe in their ear.
It was a state of permanent inter-species vendetta and, like all good vendettas, didn’t really need a reason any more. It was enough that it had always existed. Dwarfs hated trolls because trolls hated dwarfs, and vice versa.