RFC: Permanently Ban Churchill

[anon38180840]

@WichitaDM

I mean we literally have a mod right now that is pretty close to that. Can endlessly troll, post anti-trans stuff and be a general asshole and not a peep from this crowd.

Wait, what? Someone here has been posting anti-trans stuff?

@WichitaDM

Even cuse admitted he went way overboard wrt Covid precautions.

In the context of being subjected to rugged American capitalism, yes. I got unlucky in like three ways at once in conjunction with drawing down on my bankroll and I’m pretty fucked for a while, so I blame myself for being at risk of a bad parlay like that. Anyway, I still think avoiding covid has merit because of long covid.

@microbet

This site started with the idea that it was community owned, meaning all the members were owners. Taking that property with a majority vote or 2/3 vote or RFC or anything short of at least near total consensus is theft and every single one of you voting that way is a thief.

This is a horrible take and here’s why: the community owning it does not mean everyone has 1/xth of it permanently no matter what. If someone violates the trust/rules/norms/expectations of the community, the community should not be required to tolerate it with no recourse.

This is a pretty passive and progressive group that has been hesitant to ban anyone permanently, if 60% think someone deserves it, they almost certainly do.

@Vict0ar

penalties are harsh when you consistently own Wookie. he should have been a good boy and posted misinformation.

Something like 1/3rd of the bans/silencings were handed down by Wookie, and several other mods did as well. Churchill was the one posting misinformation.

@WichitaDM

But let’s be real the general covid consensus here was not really good, wiping groceries for years, not letting kids go to school, etc.

I think we stopped wiping groceries in under a year but I could be wrong. Not letting kids go to school was correct imo.

@WichitaDM

Do you think all of Church’s posts in the Covid thread are trolling? He hasn’t been totally wrong although I think he has been mostly wrong right?

I think often even when right he misapplies a correct conclusion to other things in bad faith, so yeah he’s pretty much always trolling.

@WichitaDM

Ok but like we have people wilding away in threads they literally know nothing about on the daily and nothing happens.

Speaking for myself, I’m rarely in the crypto thread, and when I do poke in I read the last fifty posts or so. So it’s hard to tell who’s in there how often and how they’re posting other than a very small sample.

@WichitaDM

The general advice here was not good, cause people to chicken little and also look like dumbasses to the people around them. Covid is serious. It requires precautions. But the general consensus here in May 2020 was laughably bad. I can run the tape if anyone wants.

I disagree with this. You’re evaluating our consensus in May 2020 with what we know now in May 2022. That’s not reasonable. You should evaluate it based on what we knew then, what the data indicated, what the experts said, what studies showed, etc.

Just because we’d act differently if you dropped us in May 2020 with our current knowledge doesn’t mean that our risk assessment at the time with a ton of major unknowns was bad.

@WichitaDM

They are only in that thread to troll yes. They also post it in the stonks thread.

I think they’re trolling somewhat from what I’ve seen, and their refusal to recognize any utility for crypto/NFTs is annoying even to me and I’m not like a huge holder of either or a huge believer… So I get why it’s annoying.

@WichitaDM

Why that should be allowed just because some of their other posts aren’t dogshit I’m not sure.

Have posts been flagged or discussed with mods? I think the key difference is they haven’t been banned/silenced 20 times and failed to change their behavior, and the majority of their behavior is in other threads and is more or less positive.

@WichitaDM

We are going to allow Riverman to call trans people yucky

Ok where did this happen? Was it flagged? I can’t imagine that was allowed to stand in this community.

@WichitaDM

and people into crypto deranged

Was the post flagged? Did another mod act on it?

@WichitaDM

I don’t think they types of people who report behavior exist in the crypto thread tbh.

Well then how can you compare the community response on both? I’m not condoning the posting in question, but I haven’t seen most of it and if it hasn’t been brought to mods attention, then that’s step 1.

[anon38180840]

@alex

Permabans are bad and go against the spirit of what this site is supposed to be about. They should only be used in extreme circumstances. This is not one of them.

Then what qualifies?

[DrJenniferMelfi]

@CaffeineNeeded

For those wondering why we’re mad this afternoon, it’s the trolling of us wanting to vaccinate our kids under 5 by churchill.

I’d prefer a ban, but he should, at a minimum, not be allowed in covid threads in the future.

This is preferable to a perma imho

[Formula72]

Extreme circumstances? What are some Churchill posts deemed too extreme to tolerate?

[MrWookie]

The status quo is that churchill’s ban expires, and he soon finds a shot to fire in the covid thread, and then he gets another week off. There is, to my knowledge, no mechanism in software to keep him out of a thread, and neither is there a way to keep him from firing the same old shots in unrelated threads. So from where I am sitting, unless he really wants to stop posting in the covid thread, saying he’s excluded from it doesn’t change anything. He just eats another temp ban he knows is coming after firing shots.

[MrWookie]

Alright, I guess if he isn’t insulting your family and your parenting, he’s fine.

[Formula72]

@MrWookie

Alright, I guess if he isn’t insulting your family and your parenting, he’s fine.

I’d be perfectly fine with you telling me that I’d be an idiot if I refused to vaccinate my 5 year old. I wouldn’t construe that as too extreme to be allowed to post here.

[CaffeineNeeded]

Would you be fine with me making fun of the fact that you can’t vaccinate your infant for Covid yet? How about if you knowingly expose yourself to Covid every day?

[alex]

@anon38180840

Then what qualifies?

Repeated profanity/vulgarity, racism, spam, etc.

[anon38180840]

@Formula72

Extreme circumstances? What are some Churchill posts deemed too extreme to tolerate?

It’s not about any one given post, it’s about a pattern of behavior. He’s been banned 20 times for trolling the COVID thread! It’s probably been over a year at this point.

But that said, I think mocking people’s kids is way over the line. Especially when health is involved.

[anon38180840]

@alex

Repeated profanity/vulgarity, racism, spam, etc.

So mocking other posters kids and trolling about their health risks is a okay? Just trolling a thread for a year is fine as long as you don’t curse or get racist?

[m_hood115]

what’s the vote threshold for a perma?

[JonnyA]

I’m not sure it was ever actually decided. 60% was used for the Sabo vote, but I think that was just sort of made up based on 60% been used for other decisions.

Edit - there is this thread from January:

RFC: Permabans

I’ve been dragging my feet on writing this, which I have promised, but I think we should have an RFC to lock down procedures for a permaban. In general, no member of this community shall be permanently banned without a vote by the community. Such a vote shall be initiated by a moderator and take the form of an RFC to discuss banning the member followed by a separate thread to record the vote, in accordance with established procedure for an RFC. The vote threshold for a permanent ban shall be: …

Based on that thread, I’d say 2/3’s seems to be appropriate threshold, but not sure though it was ever formalized.

[alex]

@anon38180840

So mocking other posters kids and trolling about their health risks is a okay?

How many times has Church done this?

A-OK is also different than must be perma’ed.

[StrontiumDog]

Insulting your family and your parenting … Mocking other posters kids

UP hyperbole in full effect

[anon38180840]

@alex

How many times has Church done this?

A-OK is also different than must be perma’ed.

He’s done this once. He’s been trolling the thread for like a year and he’s been banned/silenced 20 times over it. How many times should one poster get to cross the line warranting a ban before enough is enough. If you agree it’s not a okay then what, exactly? Obviously he’s not responding to the moderation in a constructive manner.

[Rugby]

What MUDs did you play? They were really fun imo.

[alex]

@anon38180840

How many times should one poster get to cross the line warranting a ban before enough is enough.

Do you think that’s one of the 5 most deserving of a permaban posts in the history of UP?

I think a lot of his previous bans were borderline. And may have been specifically designed to create this scenario where evidence has been “built.”

[anon38180840]

@alex

Do you think that’s one of the 5 most deserving of a permaban posts in the history of UP?

I think his lifetime behavior is in that range, top 5 most worthy of a ban, yes. Not counting spammers, and with the caveat that if somebody names 5 or 6 worse and he’s actually #7 in my mind, that’s not some gotcha.

The idea that one post must cross the line so egregiously on it’s own and that track record doesn’t play in just sets us up to get trolled forever right up to the line.

That may not be his worst post, iirc he had a horrible one at superuberbob once too that may be even worse.

[alex]

@anon38180840

He’s been trolling the thread for like a year

He has a contrarian opinion that he posts in a snarky way. If you remove the contrarian part that describes a common posting style seen here and everywhere.