Down to 4 in wsop bounty. It’s the most brutal ICM chokehold of all time. Chips are $640m, $18m, $30m and $34m. Blinds are 3/6/6m. Pay jumps are for more than $100k real money.
I understand the irony of Kessler whining about nitty rules, but showing mucked all ins is such an awful rule.
And Jon Turner (a huge nit in his own right) literally explains why when defending himself.
Why is it a horrible rule?
My question as well. Isn’t the purpose of the rule to prevent chip dumping?
It doesn’t prevent chip dumping all it does is give fish (mostly recs, some chainsaws) a bad experience in an already shitty situation for them (they just called the river and were wrong and busted).
So this. It makes the game much worse for recs to prevent “chip dumping” something that has happened like 10 times in poker history.
Too many rules in poker make the game worse to prevent some non existent crime.
Were all of those instances Men the Master?
Not saying that chip dumping is super common, but it’s happened at least once to me, and I don’t even play much live poker. Down to the final three players I was 2nd in chips and the BB when a shortie went all in for exactly the amount of the blind and massive chip leader (a very experienced player) calls in the SB. SB insta jams the flop. I had trash, so I folded and he tried to insta muck. I managed to block the cards from hitting the muck and asked the dealer to flip them over and it was pocket aces, so there is no chance that he thought he was mucking a definite loser (all in hadn’t been tabled yet), and there is also 0% chance he thought it was a heads up pot with me, so he was purely trying to chip dump to keep the shortie alive.
I must be missing something here, but what is the story for why he would want to do that?
While you might benefit more, he should still benefit if you go down from 3 to 2.
A desire to sleep with the short stack. He had been flirting with her all night and I think he was hoping that gifting her some money and a chance to chat during the heads up match would seal the deal. Also, we have played a lot together and we just never got along very well even before this.
Ahh, well, that would certainly explain it.
I’m not sure that is traditionally what is meant by chip dumping. I don’t really know for sure, so I could be wrong, but I always assumed that chip dumping implied that two or more players had a plan made up pre-tournament (or at least before a portion of the tournament) that they would dump their chips to a designated person. But I guess it is possible that the term is more general than that.
Poker has a lot of angle shooters and cheaters. Protecting the integrity of the game from them is more important than protecting the feelings of players.
Rules like this usually exist as a reaction to someone who being caught doing something unsavory.
Angle shooting is so over hyped. Sure it happens but so rarely it’s not worth obsessing about. That said it happens way more than chip dumping which is incredible rare.
These rules are weoponized against new players 100 times for every time the catch an actual incident.
I saw an extremely obvious chip dump in a tournament at Parx years ago. Down to the final table in a satellite, I think it was $200 buyin with entry to a $2k or something like that. Top 5 get a seat. We are 7 handed with blinds at 2.5k/5k, friend 1 opens to 19k, friend 2 shoves the BTN for 20k, blinds fold, friend 1 folds. Floor refused to entertain the idea that it was collusion. Both friends end up winning a seat. I think that was the last time I ever played a tournament at Parx because it was so egregious and the floor simply didnt care.
Republicans game the system by doing things that used to be rare. We should have rules that promote a culture of fair play in poker and not wait until things get bad to start fixing things.
Concern about chip dumping should be greater now than in the past due to backers having large stables of horses and the ability to communicate quickly to determine who would be helped by a chip dump.
You’ve made it clear in the past that you don’t think other players at the table should say anything even if someone is being angled.
I prefer to play in rooms where people root out angle shooters and other miscreants.
What kind of shitty, Canadian rooms are you playing in where new players routinely have rules “weaponized” against them.
This rule doesnt do anything for chip dumping. Theres no show losing hand rule in any other scenario except all in on the river. You could bet all but one chip and chip dump as much as you want.
If the hand retrieved from the muck is the winner does that player win the hand or is the hand dead?