If you are all going to start arguing he could beat any level of actual no limit cash above like 2/5 live or 50/1 online I am going to have to silent this thread for fear of losing my mind. 
Clovis’s position is that Clovis is more EV than Phil.
Edgelord points yay!
One last post on this.
My position is he is
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terrible at cash. Like bottom half of a 2/5 live pool. A huge dog in any game 5/10 or higher. I’d back a random player from that pool over him.
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he is above average at live large MTTs but still not in the top 10% bracket. No where near best.
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he is a huge dog in any high roller event of any kind.
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there is no way to prove this of course but if there was I would bet a lot of money hellmuth has played his career on the extreme end of the bell curve. Someone is the guy in the fourth standard deviation. I think it is very likely it is him.
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You don’t know what real edgelording is.
Edgelords throw shit out because they want to shock people. It’s all about getting a reaction. I say things I truly believe without caring what people think of me.
If I wanted to edgelord, I’d make people a lot more uncomfortable. Anyone who calls me an edgelord is probably just trolling me.
I didn’t say you were a good edgelord.
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Lol the other day at 5/10 a guy opened to $30 in MP, called a 3b to $135 off like $1800eff, and bet all three streets on JT8hhd 3x 4x with 4c3c to win a huge pot vs my red AA.
He was probably right at the median for poker skill at the table.
The other day at 2/5 there was a dude opening like 80% of hands and betting every street unless/until he got raised.
Phil is not in the bottom half of a live 5/10 player pool, let alone 2/5.
And if you watch him a lot in general and don’t understand some of the stuff he does that’s good, then you’re not as good as he is at that format.
Hey in that video which one is Clovis and which one is you?
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Clovis is the guy who goes nuts when the other guy says “your mom,” except instead the other guy says, “Hellmuth rules!”
Then Clovis starts swinging.
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Yeah, way too many people overrate how many people are actually good at poker, tournaments or cash games. The number for either is 3 digits, in the entire world.
He’s not good at modern poker math and not good at tilt control, but he seems pretty good at most other things, strong enough to compensate for his flaws given a live lineup that isn’t pro-heavy.
I have been at his table and he can be amazing at getting bad players to fall for his bullshit and call in a way that backpack solver kids never do.
I mean, you’ve said the exact opposite a few times here but winning money from the bad players is the entire point of poker! Hellmuth is not the guy to just battle crushers and start wars, but getting whales and casuals to give you money is a much easier way to make money at poker.
I don’t think I’ve said the opposite.
I play a style that’s right for me. I’m not a naturally aggressive person and I can’t pull off a style where the emphasis is on making players react to me. I’m a defensive counter-puncher. I accept that limits how far up I can rise, but I stick to where it works and I have an understanding of how to play a more aggressive style so I can be annoying to those who do. I shear sheep; I don’t slaughter them.
I also give up some EV by maintaining a base strategy that won’t get me in huge trouble against most lineups instead of being maximally exploitive.
I try to develop a style that’s more natural to the way I think because it decreases my cognitive load and enables me to play longer hours. Based on posts here, the way I think seems very different from how many of you think.
https://twitter.com/MGMGrandPoker/status/1522361044194107392?s=20&t=tjMvsnu6T526zjxEUWqixw
Disappointed there’s no triple badogshit.
this thread is painful to read.
if you think hellmuth is top level at any poker format except getting invited to the best games (top poker skill don’t get me wrong) please play at my table forever.
Also there was no rule for pros buying in deep lol. Hellmuth didnt have cash.
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You are bad at poker because you are unable to seperate a game of cards and your personality traits. It’s no different than people who tilt or have poor bankroll management. Thats fine, a lot of people are bad at a lot of stuff. I just wish you stop explaining this over and over again.
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I’m +EV at poker. I don’t claim to be maximum EV. Not maximizing EV is not the same as being bad at poker.
Tom initially bought in for 50k (I believe everyone bought in initially for 50k). He added some chips (not sure how much) to his stack at some point within the first hour.
Rather than reply point-by-point, I’ll simply say that I agree 100% with everything Clovis has said in this thread about Hellmuth.
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Yes it is. The entire point of the game is maximizing ev. That’s like saying you are good at bowling but don’t really focus on knocking all the pins down.