Sorry but I am never folding A6suited in a typical crazy Alberta game that is that deep with the dynamics you describe. I am happy to lose ev preflop because it is soooooo fucking easy to get it back post flop in these games and I am not going to stack off with just an ace but half the table will if I flop two pair or make a flush.
You’re still out of position though.
I’m fine loosening up a ton in position but less so out of it.
agree the position is a downside but against the two predictable villains described I am less concerned about position.
Calling off ~25bbs with a garbage suited ace not even closing the action and that you’re going to x/f the flop with probably 3/4 of the time seems really really bad. I think people vastly overestimate their edge with shitty speculative hands, especially when they’re OOP. If you’ve got position it starts to get more defensible (still probably not A6s facing a 25bb 3b lol) but making calls like this will kill your win rate.
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People who play that way are so vulnerable to squeezes that you should look to slowplay preflop if you can predict where the raise is coming from. The most useful physical tell for me is when someone telegraphs that they are going to take an aggressive action if I just call.
You mean people that call with shitty speculative hands? I play like 99.9% online anyway so physical tells are useless for me, I just sit to the left of loose passive fish and beat their brains in to make most of my money.
Nobody squeezes at 1/2 ever. Literally ever. I can count on one hand the number of real squeezes I have seen at that level and 4 of them were me. Lol
Saying 25bb is sort of meaningless when you are 1200 bb deep no? I think you are making solid online arguments but not for wild live games.
It would be a lot better if there wasn’t a nit with 200bb who 3b in the hand.
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1/2 games aren’t fungible.
There are some players at that level who will just shove a mediocre holding with a “fuck it” mentality if the stack sizes are right.
This. I don’t see how this is a close call. We know nit is super strong so likely to bet most flops. Even if you hit a flush draw, you may have to check fold based on his bet size (if everyone calls you’re looking at a $350 pot with him having $580 behind). You’re also in the worst position post flop as you’ll act directly after V2 so you won’t even know if V1 and the two droolers are going to call giving you good odds to draw. You also can’t check/raise profitably with flush draws since he’s only going to have to call less than a pot sized bet, so doubt you’re getting him off a big pair.
You’re basically calling hoping to flop two-pair or better - that seems a horrible play.
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Exactly what JonnyA and WAR said. I guess it’s live so you don’t have trackers but I used to make this kind of play all the time cold calling suited garbage like this from the SB to get into pots with whales and I looked it up and my WR doing that was a really big negative number so I stopped. Your plan is to flop a flush draw which is ~11% or 2 pair+ and otherwise you’re in a really shitty spot. And even with the flush draw you’re in a shitty spot.
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Yeah I’m all for playing as many pots against the fish as possible. But I don’t want to do so in inflated pots that aren’t heads up with marginal hands out of position.
There is obviously a depth of stacks nobody is folding here. That’s all we are really debating. What is that depth.
If it was 5,000 bb deep with fish that will stack off with any piece you are all calling. I just think it’s at that point with the game he described.
As mentioned repeatedly, the nit with 200bb on the button totally changes the profitability of the hand. It’s not just ‘should I call $75 deep 4 handed’. It’s a shit spot.
I stopped doing this too
Been thinking about this more and agree the nit throws a serious wrench in my theory. He does make it a fold I guess. I fucking hate nits!
I do think it’s not super valuable in poker to rely on black and white rules as best plays live and online just aren’t the same all the time. A 6 max 100bb online crusher is going to be leaving a lot of money on the table playing 1000bb deep wild live games like we have here.
I do play too loose preflop in my games though partly due to the above and partly because I play for fun.
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Clovis was the main guy I wanted to hear from on this one, being that he’s from the same/similar ecosystem. I’m content that he found it as tough of a spot as I did.
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1/2 PLO limp reraise gone wrong?
It’s past 4am. I am leaving when I get felted on this buy-in or in an hour, whichever comes first. Button straddler is in for somewhere between 2k and 3k, buying in for 100 or 200 at a time. He has just rebought for 200. He raises his button straddle almost always.
Hero open-limps in BB with AKT3ss with the intention of limp-reraising. Three callers. Button makes it 60. Hero pots it to 245. Everyone calls, which surprised me.
Flop is KJ3r, none of my suit. Hero jams for his last 80 and gets three callers (with button already all-in.)
Turn is an offsuit 8. Checked around.
River is an offsuit 6. Checked around.
Even if you managed to get it HU with the Button (who I assume is never folding), all of your money is still going in after the flop. Consequently, do you believe your starting hand is significantly stronger than the Button’s range?