I mangled this hand on basically every street besides the flop, I did end up calling and he had 10h Jh. I agree this river is a check, I hated myself for betting it, I was fortunate villain perceived me as nittier than I am.
No. If villain has a non-nut hand with value, he can take a check-call line fairly easily to defend against bluffs. Why raise if you’re bluff-catching?
My argument is that for villain to check raise river he either has to have the nuts, or really close to it, or absolutely nothing. From villains chair as first to act on the river, it would be criminal to lose value by checking the near nuts. He’s just not doing it if he’s a crusher. That leaves his range as almost entirely air, unless we misread how strong of a player he is.
As played, I disagree. We’re under-repped, and we can’t miss value just cause we’re scared of stressful situations. He can call with a ton of hands that we beat.
My argument is that villain should check strong hands if hero bets all hands that would call a bet and sometimes bluffs if checked to and that this scenario is more likely than villain believing hero checks behind almost 100% of time. Villain should have AK in hero’s range and should expect hero to bet that hand.
I might be more inclined towards your thinking if the fishy player hadn’t called pre. Betting into that player on the flop should narrow hero’s range.
Hero’s turn check loudly states, “I have a medium strength hand that I’ve gone into pot control mode on. It’s not strong enough to be bothered charging all those draws. Please let me have a cheap showdown”. Hero’s hand is face-up. His entire range is medium strength vulnerable hands. Crusher knows this. He 100% expects hero to check river.
Edit: He also knows hero is strong enough to have to call a river bet. His hands are tied and he can’t bluff, until hero opens the door.
I just don’t know what to tell you. As a poker player, if you’re oop on the river with a value hand, and villian has checked behind on the turn, if you’re routinely checking the river you should probably find a new hobby. Build model airplanes or something, poker’s not for you. A good player just does not miss value there. Ever.
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If true, then hero should fold medium-strength hands to a river bet because villain is never bluffing and only betting hands that are good value bets against a pot-control range.
You should be checking enough strong hands to protect your check-raise range or else you shouldn’t check-raise bluff.
Against this guy, I probably do fold if he bets pot on the river.
Edit for clarity: I’m probably not folding AK specfically, but I’m folding a big chunk of the range that I can have here, so maybe I was off base saying villain’s hands were tied for a lead out bluff.
When villain checks behind on turn I don’t have a check-raise range. I have check-fold, check-call, bet-fold, bet-call, bet-raise ranges. There’s nothing in the check-raise box, bluffs or otherwise.
Edit: I actually challenge you (or anyone) to construct a hand history where your best play is to check-raise river oop, after the turn goes check check. I don’t think it can be done. (except as a bluff of course, which means against a thinking player, the bluff can’t be the best play)
It’s a fine play for Villain to c/r this spot for value if he has a straight. He wins more from AK because it will usually bet and sometimes hero call the shove, and he wins a lot more from AQ, and that is by far the most likely holding to take Hero’s line. Also bluffs. People do play flush draws with bet check bet lines.
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1/3 effective $900
Hero in double straddle for $12 with AKcc
Folded to CO who raises to $30
BB calls
Hero raises to $75
Call
Call
Flop KdJd6c
Check
I bet 100
Call
Call
Turn 4s
Checked around (I am scared of old guy in Bb who has over called twice. A couple hands early it was limped to him like 4 ways and he opens for $50 and when folded to proudly shows KK)
River 2c
Check check CO bets $250
Fold
Hero?
Why this preflop sizing? Standard in that spot is $120 to $150. The river is a value bet too.
As played, I think you pretty much always have the best hand and should just jam for value. Your line has the advantage of looking really weird and can induce a confusion call from KQ here.
Agree I sized too small preflop. For my game $150 seems too high but $100ish is probably better.
I would have done more preflop and more postflop.
As played, I probably just call here. Feel like you aren’t getting called by much that you have beat, nor are you forcing many folds by hands that beat you.
how exactly am I supposed to adjust HU to someone 3 betting 30+ bb’s into my min raises?
effective stack sizes were me ~60 bb’s and him 30-40 when he started doing this.
Villain is a thinking rec but tends to fold far too much to aggression and when checking usually has given up. When he starts feeling like he’s being steamrolled (usually he is) he starts this preflop shoving behavior. All of a sudden decent hands like J9s on the button are a bit annoying to me, I definitely want to try to see a flop and don’t want to fold to a 3 bet. Do I limp a wider range? That’s what I ended up doing and it seemed to work.
I know I can call off a little lighter if I want but I was really reluctant to flip for so much tournament equity when he was so extremely easy to play against postflop. there’s a big jump in prize from 2nd to 1st.
If you make it 120+ pre you can blast that wet flop for 250 and feel fine jamming that turn. 75 is way too small, especially after a flat. 100 on flop is also too small and leads to you letting them see a super cheap river when they probably have a load of outs combined.
Getting weirded out by the old guy who has shown a tendency to overbet his big hands because he called twice seems wrong since I would peg that guy for a flop c/r with every hand that beats you on that board.
As played just call river imo.
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I think this is exactly the adjustment to make. I would only raise with hands I want to GII pre with, otherwise I’m trying to see flops in position as cheaply as possible.
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That’s a good argument for the higher preflop raise. I think this might be a leak in my game. I play very laggy so want to bet a lot of flops which forces me to use smaller sizes than I probably should since I am bluffing so much.
I did call and CO turned over JJ for set.
It depends on how often he is jamming. If it’s not way too frequently, you still want to have the weaker part of your raising range. Def turn all your stronger r/fs into limps.
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