Dynamics doesn’t justify playing 85 like that. And lots of people who have cashed a lot in tournaments make mistakes! They aren’t perfect.
A lot also aren’t very profitable either, but that’s a whole other thing.
What’s the case for V2 looking like he’s bluffing V1? V1 looks like a player betting for value after checking to the preflop raiser and seeing it get through. V2 should be raising for value because I’d imagine V1 didn’t get those chips by bet-folding top pair.
Nah, I’m describing fish who give you their stack when you cooler then with two pair or a straight.
I don’t think it’s correct at a 40bb stack depth, though.
So you’re trying to over two pair or straight/over straight with 85s. GL with that. Math disagrees with you. Going to need some massive stacks and 100% go broke rates.
Also, would probably be bad to put him on a bluff if he’s a stud specialist.
You can limp with 85s if the combination of players and stack depths give you enough implied odds. This is probably not the right situation, but the general claim that limping weak hands at some tables can be on has some merit.
You can limp some hands, you do not have the math to support 85 with ‘implied odds’. Until you show your work on the implied odds of that, it’s just made up nonsense.
Personally the biggest mistake v2 made imo was his raise sizing on the turn which allowed me to reraise bluff.
85s is clearly profitable given players who stack off with any pair and 10,000bb stacks. I don’t think I have to go through the math to prove it for everyone here to recognize it’s true. Also, it should be obvious that the hand becomes less profitable as you adjust the threshold for willingness to get it in and make the stacks shallower. I make no claims about where that shifts from less profitable to not profitable at all, although 40bb effective in a tournament doesn’t seem profitable.
In any case, I never specified limping with 85s was good, but was merely making the general assertion that open-limping can be a reasonable option.
This is a good example why hand discussions are so dumb sometimes.
On on side you have me telling you he is a great player with very significant wining numbers. On the other you have him limping 85 in a turbo one time.
Your conclusion. He is probably not good and a loser long term.
🤷
I’m still trying to figure out how you thought that was a bluff, since it looks like a very value-y raise size to me.
I’ve been open limping button in very specific circumstances lately in tournaments, and I know there are respected pros that limp sometimes. It’s not an unheard of thing anymore. Kind of weird to me given where I came from in poker (moneymaker era hyper aggro monkey).
Lots of the hate towards limping is unwarranted - with certain hands and effective stack sizes, if you can get away with limping, you absolutely should in my opinion.
Solvers like open-limping sometimes OTB and SB. It’s the other positions where people don’t like open-limping.
I know people are lol Sklansky these days, but I remember when he wrote that in some limp-y games, a good player could be playing about 1/3 of hands and limping most of them.
I do like open-limping early in a tournament to test their reactions and maybe encourage certain types of players to underestimate me later in the tournament when I switch gears
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I have an open limping range in my really weak passive home game, but it’s not something I feel comfortable playing in any normal online game
If I was to guess v2 is likely the most balanced player in field where it’s close to impossible to tell if he is raising or limping AA or 85. I have seen him do all 4 versions.
Right - if the best player is open limping 85s in MP either he’s not that good or the tournament is super-weak.
On a side note - I love the irony here that Clovis is arguing that the fact V2 is up big lifetime in donkaments is now evidence he’s a great player.
This is a Bruce level bad post man. No idea why you are making it.
You know both statements are dumb for reasons I already pointed out to cn
He can’t possibly be a good player because he played the turn how I would with his hand.
The last two hand histories you’ve posted you’ve attacked the people offering their thoughts saying they don’t understand your table dynamics and are bad players. It’s annoying.
The one before this where everyone said fold pre, and you said your call was 100% right and not up for debate, Hanson said your pre-flop call was way too wide. (I will give you credit for posting his response).
I will stop responding to your HH.
I attacked someone? Please quote.
I disagreed. That’s not attacking.
So your position is is you have a 0% limp rate in V2 spot given what I’ve said about the table?
You are the one saying V2 is a bad player based on one hh after being told he is a great player with very significant win rates.
I post hands that are out of the norm as I find they stimulate interesting discussion. It’s not interesting to post, I raised aa on button and stacked a guy with qq.