I think you’re underestimating the value of folding out KQ, KJ, AJ, AQ, etc or even the combination of Ax and Kx between the two players. There’s a lot of value in folding out out the air with a simple cbet.
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I usually check pre in this situation, but if I raise pre, I raise the same amount I would raise with AA.
I’m never folding the flop as played. I raise if I’m willing to play for stacks and call if I don’t. This is, of course, a read-dependent question.
It sounds like he’s talking about checking preflop and you think he’s talking about not checking behind on the flop.
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Im looking at it as a value calculation. Do we make more money by c betting flops and winnig smallish pots in a high rake environment. Or do we make more money taking flops with cards that cna have a nut advantage in high pot to stack ratio.
Maybe I am underestimating fold equity post flop. But my experience with 1/3 no limit is trying to make profitable plays by bluffing lose passive 1/3 players is really hard to do. Of course it will always be player dependent as will all decisions at 1/3
Its a tough spot. Folding does seem nitty. Just looking at the board if two of us have a flush draw are draw is good <10%. Ideally a shove would get a better 10 to fold and the flush draw to call and then brick a club and the over.
Stacking people at 1/3 200bb deep is hard unless the table is pretty terrible. It’s nearly impossible in a limped pot.
Not inflating pots in position with high visibility hands and churning 20-40 bb wins without showdown is a way to get beat by rake in that environment.
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yea i fuckin turbo shove
you have insane equity even vs sets, v2 is dead money
I disagree. You win by stacking off with premiums because they never fold. With the straddle on we are only 115 big blinds deep.
You are 115 bb deep effective in this hand and 230 bb deep at the same time my dude.
Stacking only premiums is a recipe for winning 5-7 bb/hr. If you’re not churning non sd pots in position it’s gonna be a rough ride variance wise too.
If vi calls and v2 folds we only need around 35% to be profitable. If v2 calls we need less but we also might have a lot less. Calling seems much better.
I meant getting it in is better with fold equity of course
I usually rip it here because fuck it, but I feel like V1 never folds and I don’t love it. If you really think you have no fold equity it’s fine to just call and see what happens on the turn.
I get what you are saying it’s a big pot relative to the blinds. But when the straddle is on the straddle becomes the big blind. So in this hand we are 115 deep. At least that’s how I see it.
I’m going to mix it up with a wider range then then premiums I’m just not going to try and bluff call stations. I mean it’s 1/3 and it’s kind of senseless discussion because the range of players at 1/3 goes from guys that can’t fold middle pair and gut shots to players who won’t call a single big bets with less then top 2. Without spefic players reads its hard to lay out a superior strategy.
Happens all the time. Helps with straddles obviously but idk the nitty games you and Bruce seem to play in, I’d rather not play at all vs games that rarely see money get in.
Games are plenty good, just a different kind. Most people are relatively competent pre and on the flop. People making egregious preflop mistakes constantly or stacking 200+ bbs in limped pots? Those types of tables appear like, 1 in 3, 1 in 4 sessions maybe?
Maybe I need to move to Calgary.
I wouldn’t say the games I play in are nitty. My local player pool is a combination of loose-passive and tight-passive players. Almost no one 3bets pre without premiums and they sometimes don’t 3bet, but they will be the first raiser sometimes, so it’s not a limpfest, although there are some limped pots. Players will also sometimes limp-call pre with AK or JJ.
They call down with hands they shouldn’t, but also take pot control lines vs scare cards and slowplay too much, so you can bet an overpair for three streets and get shown a flopped two pair that was afraid to play a big pot against a possible set.
How comfortable are you playing in a game where you are often playing a four-way single raised pot.
If you play in a big enough population centre or travel enough you’ll play against every type of player, but I just dont get not trying to play in great games when they are out there. Just watch any vlog from any pros in florida/Texas.
I’m super comfortable playing multiway routinely. Have to get used to that when for years pre pandemic live PLO was paying the bills.
Anyways, my first thought in this is to ask, if I just call, on what turn cards do I expect V1 to bet and how much. This, of course, is very read-dependent and requires going over how they have played other hands. If I have no history with this player, I probably just call.
There’s just something about my demeanor at the table, I think. I’ve had games that start out like those Texas/Florida games, but tighten up after an hour.
table talk a bit killjoyish?
I’m not entirely sure. I think I’m a friendly guy. Loose-passive fish who are there to lose slowly while having a social experience seem to like me because I talk to them. More importantly, I listen to them. On the other hand, LAGs who are there to use poker as a way to assert dominance generally hate me because I don’t enable their egos and force them to be careful.
I never berate players. I don’t react to beats. I don’t celebrate wins. I do call out players who are abusive or angle-shooters and I don’t care if doing so costs me money. They can say whatever they want to me, but I won’t tolerate abuse towards anyone else, especially dealers. I’m the guy who knows a!l the rules and usually knows the pot in PLO.
I don’t talk about strategy of the game I am playing, but I do sometime act as a mixed game evangelist and give some basics of how to play other games if they ask. I admit to going on poker vacations and like conversations about other poker rooms. I’m not capable of pretending to be dumb. It’s super obvious that I’m a thinking player. Still, I’ve never uttered the word “equity” at the table even when other players do.