I raised to 550. The station tank for a while and called 350 with a much better hand than i thought (a2hh). Kid folded 88.
A on the river and we held. Still not sure about the sizing and i kinda think i need to incorporate donks into my game. These multi way 3b pot happen often in the low limit games and i expect CO to check behind everything worse than AQ. If i lead out it doesn’t really change the range both callers continue with imo and the 3b isnt folding his aces on the flop or turn
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5-5-(25) PLO
It’s about 6am on a weekday and a crazy, loose game. There’s six Black guys at the table, one plays reasonably, three are mostly short stack gambling and the other two are buddies who have been playing with me all night and regularly drinking for a solid 12 hours. They both have big stacks now, one of them is still buried and the guy on my right is up a little, but feels stuck because he gave so much cash to the other dude. They’re both playing erratically, the guy to my right frequently gets to the turn blind, but they don’t typically go too nuts with aggression postflop.
We also have an older Asian guy in a hoodie with a built in mask that takes naps at the table and randomly switches from playing tight for hours to gamble gamble mode and a white dude who seems like a solid player. He left, up a bunch, then came back a few hours later with two strippers. I’m pretty sure they had been drinking and doing blow and would continue to go out to his car to do so. As soon as he comes back, dude goes on a heater and just crushes everyone, he’s giving the girls black chips that they stick in their shirts in a manner that exposes their large, almost certainly fake, tits. Sometimes, if the table isn’t full, he’ll give one of them $500 to play in the $50 bomb pots.
So, this game is very good and lively, albeit slow as fuck, largely because these guys love their minute+ card funerals and dealers struggling to handle the constant side pots. There’s also a shitload of sidebetting going on. I started out the day hot, up about $9k early but have been getting destroyed for hours and ended up stuck after I lost a $7k pot to a river one outer vs the guy stuck heaps.
The $25 straddle is basically a blind, everyone is doing it. BTN is one of the shortstackers who recently quadded up.
I’m the straddle, there’s 4 limps, BTN (2300) pots to 160, SB(1k) calls, BB(10k) calls, I (4500) pot to 740 with AKKhQh, fold to BTN, they all call, 4 way to the flop.
Flop Ts 6c 2d (Pot 3k)
Checked to me, I see the BTN with his stack of three purples and some reds in his hand, clearly about to throw it in, so I check, he shoves 1550, SB calls AI for 250, BB immediately throws out four 1k chips.
Now, I’m not thrilled with this because this guy can totally have all that shit and he’s more passive. I think for a few seconds, then BB pulls a couple of the chips back and says that he just meant to call. Obv, the dealer says LOL NO. I was going to call anyways because the pot is too big, but I didn’t think he was acting so this made it a snap.
Board runs out 6 J.
BB performs the last rites for his K792sscc which I eventually crane my head over to peek at before he mucks, SB has AJ98, BTN doesn’t show, I scoop a big one and get solidly unstuck. 
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I wanted to just throw out some general thoughts on donk-betting multi-way. All of this comes from my own head. I don’t know if training sites say that this is anywhere near the right way to play. A lot of my thoughts on donk-betting comes from PLO, where the different shape of how equities are distributed in multi-way pots probably means the strategy should be a bit different than NL, but I think there are concepts that apply.
I think we are supposed to have a donk-betting range multi-way. The shape of that range should be balanced between strong hands that are never folding to a raise and semibluffs. I suspect the semibluffs we want to balance our range with are the ones that both block the hands our opponents might check-raise with and also have a lot of turn cards which we can barrel if called. (In PLO, one of the hands I’ve taken to donking with occasionally is top pair, blocking top set, with a nut gutshot and at least one backdoor flush draw.) So, my guess is that we should donk rarely and only on certain board textures. What that frequency should be on which boards is not something I could every calculate.
I would guess that position plays a strong part in choosing when to donk. It’s possible that there are hands that would be played as a check-raise from the blinds, but as a donk bet in late position against a button raiser. My suspicion is that players donk too often out of the blinds with strong hands that hate a lot of turn cards, bloating a pot that can be taken away from them, especially in PLO.
Donking when you are to the immediate right of the preflop raiser can squeeze them by forcing them to face a bet with a bunch of players behind who automatically check to the raiser and might be slow-playing. I’ve sometimes used this ploy to get an overpair to fold and get my second-best made hand heads-up against a likely draw.
One play from limit games is to donk to induce a raise, making the other players call two bets cold if they want to draw. That is one way to protect your hand that is not understood by players used to big bet games who come into a fixed-limit game and take bet-bet-bet lines to try and charge draws. This play is not as applicable in a game like NLHE, but I think there are spots where it could make sense.
Thinking exploitatively, the main physical tells that I look for are the ones that give me a sense of whether or not an opponent will bet if checked to. The most common scenario where I donk is when I have a hand that I would like to check-raise with, but where my opponent is telling me that there won’t be a bet that I can raise. Of course, I am also looking to see if anyone else is considering a check-raise.
Anyways, those are some of my basic thoughts on donk-betting.
In the hand I posted the flop was AT9r and we have a 3 bettor with a pretty narrow range and two very loose players with a super wide range.
I expect the 3 bettor to only bet AJ or better. Of course he continues with those hands to my bet and he might find a call with something like JJ-KK and maybe KQs-KJs. The other two can call with tons of hands.
Sure I might lose out some value on hands where 3b has AK and is going to call a c/r but we’re deep enough that I can make up for it on later streets.
Now the problem is of course that my range will be basically all 2p+ which is a terrible poker play. On the other hand I don’t bother building balanced ranges in tons of other spots, but I still “automatically” check in some spots where there might be ton of value to be have by donking.
PLO is so much different that I think mixing the conversation isn’t helpful to NLH.
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AT9r might not be one of the flops that you should donk. I suspect that if it is, the semibluffs in your hand look something like J9s with a backdoor flush draw, hands with some equity that maybe can’t call a c-bet. If you don’t have hands like that in your preflop range, then perhaps you don’t have a donking range on this particular board.
Having thought about it more, I think donking makes sense when you have hands that would prefer to check-raise, but don’t expect your opponents to bet often enough to justify that line. The more multi-way you are, the less likely the preflop raiser is to c-bet, but the earlier your position, the more additional players there are who could bet instead.
A guy bets 15 on the river on a3452 i call playing the board
He looks at me says you’re good
I stare
He says you are good kinda showing me his random cards
I do not speak your language sir
He semi turn his cards turn them back and mucks
Okay.
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Was going to say I like a flop donk. I don’t think even the most hopeful of villains are betting air or KJ here.
My mother in law is coming to visit soon so I’m using giving her and my wife alone time to make a poker trip. Options include:
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Horseshoe Hammond (2 hour drive) never been but I hear the games are good. Any hotels nearby?
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Cincinnati Hard Rock (1.5 hour drive) no idea on quality of games.
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Fly to Dallas and see my buddy / play at TCH. The games are the best here but it’s also $300 for flights.
Wish I this type of arrangement was an option for me. I’m basically required to accompany my wife to anything regarding in laws so that they don’t kill each other.
I’d pick choice 3 personally, but that’s for non poker related reasons and the fact that when I want to get away, I want to get away.
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Donking Ace high boards is generally terrible since the PFR usually has a huge range advantage.
Your better off donking middling boards such as T96 with hands like QJ, KJ, 67, 98 as well as 2p+
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There are hotels near Horseshoe Hammond, but not necessarily great quality. Some people prefer to stay in downtown Chicago and drive 30 minutes. The poker room there opens Monday morning and closes Friday morning, so it is not open on the weekends.
I have not been to the Cincinnati Hard Rock since the pandemic, but prior to that, the games seemed fine to me.
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Wait… there is no poker on the weekends at Hammond?
I’m glad you told me that because I would have never even looked. I guess that one is out.
Have you considered Detroit?
Too far.
Wait what? Admittedly I haven’t been there in a while but that room was 247 forever.
From what I heard, post-pandemic, most of the dealers did not come back because they were asked to take pay cuts. Now, their poker dealers also deal table games, which the casino would rather have them doing on the weekend. The demand is there, but there’s a national dealer shortage.
That will be setting money on fire on these tables.
It sounds like the Texas games are worth the money! Dallas gets my vote
I just found the juiciest 1-3 game of my life at a “charity” club. Holy shit. This is a $300 shove with any 2 cards type game.
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