Podcast Thread

Harris’ point is that too much social media and online communication isn’t designed for actual discourse but rather simply to signal once’s membership in their tribe.

As an aside, Harris is such a good example of the terrible purity standard too often employed today.

He has some terrible ideas around race. There is no doubt about that. He is also a world-class thinker on consciousness, the self, and meditation. He also holds some of the most interesting discussions on his podcast.

A person can simultaneously hold good and bad beliefs. In fact, I’d go so far as to say ALL humans do. Yet in today’s world having one bad idea means total cancellation. We don’t even try to change people minds, even those who have shown an obvious ability to do so. Have one bad set of beliefs and you are done. Forever.

This is so clearly bad for discourse and democracy yet it’s defended as somehow virtuous.

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Harris overestimates how much of communication involved actual discourse before social media.

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That might be a fair point. Thus his comment on a huge social experiment. I don’t know the actual answer.

My theory is that social media provides critical mass for POVs which might otherwise be easily ignored.

Consider the plight of homosexuals. It was easy to marginalize them when there were at most a handful of them in a town, but in the big city, you reached a large enough nexus of gayness that there were bars and other businesses catering to homosexuals and their tastes. As this became more visible, it became more mainstream, and that small town homosexual who was ostracized became aware that they were not some misfit, but there was a community out there where they were accepted. Maybe they ended moving to the big city or maybe they had the courage to be true to themselves without moving. And more people saw that and came out of the closet or realized they were gay. Some sort of gay tribe was established.

Now, instead of homosexuals, imagine we’re talking about…let’s say incels. And instead of the big city, these incels meet on the internet. They also form a sense of community, one that knows no geographic boundaries.

Social media amplifies the voices of marginalized people by providing the critical mass to form a community. Black Lives Matter is the size and scope it is because of social media, but the same can be said of the alt-right. These non-geographic communities engage in performative communication on the internet because that is where they were born.

Right now, we have a war going on, the cultural war that Pat Buchanan spoke of in the 1990s. For decades, Democrats have been pretending that the war is not going on, but the people have spoken. They increasingly understand that we have a struggle for the soul of America, a conflict over what values drive us as individuals and as a nation.

We are once again what Abraham Lincoln described as a house divided against itself. One side must prevail. There is no compromise to be had. There will be no peace for our time. What some decry as “cancel culture” is a necessary string of battles in the war of ideas. Those who can be rehabilitated can be rehabilitated later. For now, they are collateral damage, but it won’t necessarily be forever. Once there is victory, we can establish the appropriate penance to regain entry into a reconstructed society.

There needs to be change. If an orderly transition can’t be managed, then we need a messy transition instead of a semblance of order held together by the duct tape of oppression.

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Of course true. But…

Wtfbbq. So, you’ve got like the Dalai Lama, and this fucking guy? Just no. Fuck no.

I mean i guess if you’re coming from a place of total ignorance of the subject (which is not a knock, its normal) it may look like he knows what he’s talking about because he read like 3 more books than you, but he is not a deep thinker, he clearly has a limited capacity for self examination or he wouldn’t be so consistently and stubbornly wrong.

Tldr == if he really was the latter he wouldn’t be the former.

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If by limited experience you mean I’ve read every book he has written, more than a hundred of others on the subject of meditation, the self and consciousness and listened to hundreds of hours of his podcast. I’ve been practicing mindfulness for years.

However your post makes my original point very well.

Google the Dalai lama on immigration and women. Lol

I was a fan of Jon Stewart back in the day, but the “I’m just a comedian” thing was always a lame excuse.

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It was fine when comparing himself to Tucker on CNN or whoever on Fox, it was bad when using to deflect from any criticism. Especially like 15 years ago he shouldn’t have been judged on the same level as major news networks, but he wasnt perfect either.

I did that and i see him apologizing for a joke in questionable taste? Thats on a par with stanning for race science now?

Look ok even the best of us can have blind spots, fair enough. I just dont get the sam harris love. Haven’t read him tbh but from seeing him some on the youtubes hes kind of a dick, he doesnt seem particularly insightful, and he spends a lot of time on racist apologia, and hes not as smart as he thinks he is. Sorry to shit on your guy but pick better heroes.

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Do you see the error of your logic here?

You haven’t read much of him but have a very strong opinion on him. You say he spends a lot of time on race apologia. That is because your knowledge of him comes from tweets about him. I’d guess his podcast numbers hundreds of hours now, a total of three I think are about race. His writings basically never address race.

Also he is hardly my hero. He is one of dozens of people I read.

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In retrospect, Jon Stewart was just too milquetoast, too unwilling to be an unapologetic liberal. His whole brand of centrist tone-policing has aged badly. How many times did he invite guys like John McCain and Mike Huckabee onto his show to mildly rebuke them? I loved his show, but he badly misjudged what was going on in America when the Tea Party came into power.

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Still one of the best all time media critiques.

Remember the Rally to Restore Sanity? A unifying message of depolarization and compromise in October '10 which promptly kicked off… GOP political domination for an entire decade. Oops.

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He did a huge service in calling out Fox News. It’s hard to imagine now, but they pushed “fair and balanced” for like 15 years with very little pushback. On the other forum Ike and his merry band of right wing friends would argue endlessly that fox just told uncomfortable truths the liberal media didn’t want to hear.

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It’s not, though. Listen to Jon calling them partisans, telling them to stop arguing so much, stop being divisive. It’s pure centrist tone policing. Tucker Carlson isn’t bad because he argues a lot and his discourse isn’t civilized, he’s bad because his far-right politics are abominable.

I was there!

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Its not tweets about him, its mostly his stanning for Charles Murray all over the place a coule years ago. So yeah, mainly I know him as a public racist. Naturally I’m skeptical that the guy saying actually blacks are genetically inferior is a great thinker on spiritual matters.

That said, ok I’ll give it a shot when I have time. What one book or essay or podcast or whatever of his about the self, consciousness, etc. should I check out?

He really never said anything even remotely like black people are inferior.

As for what to read it would depend on the subject. I’d say mindfulness and atheism are his two strongest subjects.

Come on dude, he basically defended the bell curve/Murray.

Except he didn’t. He defended the right to do the research. I am not going to get it i this again. He has a blind spot on racial issues causing him to dramatically downplay its role in society. He is very wrong on racial issues. He isn’t an actual racist.

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I didn’t hear him telling them not to be partisan, he is telling them not to be hacks.