Please highlight actual evidence. Something that isn’t a series of conjectures that is more analogous to the right’s voter fraud claims.
There’s no evidence of the wet market theory either. That’s my whole point.
It’s literally already happened once with a coronavirus in the same family.
2 Likes
Have viruses infected lab workers in highly secure labs?
Yah well prove it WASN’T bio engineered in a top secret Amazon facility to get everyone to stay home and order tp online.
6 Likes
And yes some republicans have done occasional actual voter fraud. That does not support their claims of dems doing it widespread.
No scientist of any repute has argues that it’s man made. Just because a theory of accidental lab release is possible does not make it probable or even likely. Nature has been recombining and unleashing germs since the beginnings of life.
Extra ordinary claims require extra ordinary proof. There isn’t any. Just a theory of how it could happen.
Lots of known zoonotic viruses crossing over outside of laboratories.
Why can’t you just state that there is a theory that has no hard evidence at this time. Why die on the hill? By saying it’s unlikely based on past known science and events I don’t think anyone here is saying impossible. But it ain’t greater than 50%.
It’s like saying losing to a 1 outer is 50/50. It either comes on the river or it doesn’t. Just because the result is binary doesn’t mean the probability is.
1 Like
Acoording to this there have been many escapes of viruses from labs, some causing pretty widespread infections.
2 Likes
Exceedingly rare. Zoonotic events happen all the time, so says influenza and SARS#1 and Ebola and HIV …
1 Like
Possible not probable. If proven I’d be surprised but not shocked. We are objecting to the certainty of Keeds argument. That’s all.
1 Like
A wet market origin is also just a theory with no hard evidence at this time. I really don’t understand why there is so much resistance to even consider the incredibly reasonable suggestion that just maybe one of the very few high level labs studying rare coronaviruses that just happened to be located in the exact same city as a rare coronavirus outbreak and is not even a little bit close to the regions widely thought to harbor rare coronaviruses in wild animal populations just might possibly have been the source of that rare coronavirus outbreak which so far does not have any other known origin.
4 Likes
Again, you’re conflating “man made” with “lab accident”. I’ve said that there isn’t any hard evidence of the lab leak theory. What is known is that they were doing research on bat coronaviruses in Wuhan. And a virus that is being investigated in a lab infecting lab workers isn’t extraordinary. It’s happened a number of times.
And again, what is the evidence that the first infection happened in the wet market? I haven’t seen anything compelling. Have you? Obviously it’s possible. But you’re demanding evidence for a lab leak. Why aren’t you demanding evidence for the wet market theory?
How certain is Keeed? Did he say 50/50?
I suppose the lab theory is more dangerous to advance without evidence than the wet market theory. The wet market theory may be condescending and insulting, but China manufactured the virus and released it on purpose is by far the most dangerous theory.
I said I think it’s probably from the lab. More likely than not, certainly not anything close to certain. Obviously it’s totally possible it came from not the lab, although I think that China has exhibited some evidence of a guilty conscience, which adds to my suspicions.
Also, China manufacturing the virus and releasing it on purpose is the least likely in my mind and I don’t think I’ve ever suggested that.
It’s just vastly more likely that the virus came from an animal market than from a bio lab. It’s like, this is a thing scientists have been warning everyone about for years. Occam’s Razor is in play here.
2 Likes
I’m not saying you did, but perhaps any theory about Chinese labs increases the adoption of the theory that they did it on purpose.
Sure. But it goes in order of decreasing likeliness: accidental escape from the lab while doing legitimate research, then accidental escape from the lab while doing the bioweapons research, then purposeful release after completing bioweapons research.
1 Like
People have been warning about accidental virus release from labs for years too!
Can you name a single previous pandemic caused by release of a virus from a lab? Zoonotic outbreaks are incredibly common.
If zoonotic outbreaks are so common why is it unreasonable to suggest the zoonotic transmission might have happened in a lab that was chock full of animals known to be carriers of this exact type of virus?
1 Like
I thought it was common knowledge at this point COVID was produced in a Kazakh lab and spread by Borat.
3 Likes