“Nobody anywhere at any time has ever made any kind of good counter argument against anything I’ve said. The only person who could debate against my own position is me.”
I count at least 9 words here that I never said or used. Using quotations to misquote someone and intentionally misrepresent what they said is kind of sad and really poor form, but don’t worry. I won’t try and sue you lol
You actually made the first and most reasoned argument yet in the post above this travesty of a misquote post I’m responding to now. I’ll try to get it. You made some reasonable points. I’m going to be busy for the next couple of days, but have things to say about it
I see no user name on 22 for Cactus. But he posted here like 75x. Plays both sides of the fence and subtly uses whataboutism to support his positions. (I hate guns but what about the police?)
Didn’t some of those deplorables over there say they were gonna create like 10 fake accounts here? That’s my guess.
So it seems that some don’t see how our right to bear arms are intrinsically linked to a militarized police force. Or maybe they do see it, yet don’t care. Lastly, maybe they are actually fine with the concept of police being sovereign citizens who cannot be held accountable because the same laws and standards that apply to the rest of us simply do not apply to them.
Interesting you’d bring up Philando Castile. A black man (of course) murdered in cold blood in his own car doing nothing wrong right in front of his gf and her young child. Any one of us would have been immediately handcuffed, charged, put in jail, and then convicted to spending years in prison. But this cowardly murderous cop was put on PAID LEAVE and eventually found NOT GUILTY! There’s a provision in the law that allows for this, but I won’t get into that now. Suffice it to say many police feel they are above the law and in many cases they are (because of that provision)
You also don’t seem to know or recognize what tyranny is. The case of Philando Castile is just one example, but it also runs throughout the entire system. From the cop on the street, to the prosecutor, to the DA, AG, judge, and finally the highly profitable industrialized prison complex. I realize none of this affects you much. You probably feel very safe and secure wherever you’re reading this right now. But far too many people are sitting in jail cells because their rights were initially violated by some thug cop on the street. As we speak rights are being violated at border checkpoints. Soon, if not already, they will be violated in people’s homes and workplaces.
The fact that you’re happy shrugging off this kind of tyranny with a “what can you do?” attitude does not mean everyone has to adopt the same sheepish stance. And just because you would stand down in the face of crazed cops bursting down your door “because it wouldn’t end well for you”, doesn’t mean everyone would. Some things are worth dying for.
I personally would like to see every black person in every poor neighborhood properly armed, trained, and willing to use their guns against tyranny. I bet cops would think twice before violating their rights or needlessly shooting or choking the life out of someone for selling loose cigs in front of a store
But your broader point seems to rest on the single premise of shoulder shrugging “but there’s nothing we can do! We will never win a war against an establishment turned fascist” and that’s simply wrong. I want to say there are roughly 100,000 gun owners for every cop. Many ex and current members of the military feel as I do. If an uprising is ever necessary and actually were to occur, I think you’ll be very surprised at the amount of disruption a well armed population can inflict.
So to sum up:
1). The right to bear arms is very much linked to the prevention of tyrannical and militarized police forces that infringe upon citizen’s rights on a routine basis and may get worse and worse.
2). You very much underestimate what a well armed population can do to fight against tyranny
3). Just because you’re a sheep and unwilling to fight to the death against tyranny and/or a fascist establishment, doesn’t mean you get to take away the means of others that are willing to do so
4). I’m one of the more reasonable 2A advocates in that I see no reason to be against background checks, waiting periods, training, and licensing. I’m also willing to disarm if the police do. You want my AR-15? Then take them away from the police too. But until then the answer is no. You can’t have any of my guns
The West was won with single action revolvers, that should be enough to defend your home.
Who’s trolling now?
Police aren’t civilians.
Correct. They are supposed to be public servants, not tyrants
While I agree they are overly militarized and that should change I don’t have a problem with police having better firepower than civilians.
You’re entitled to your opinion, but I disagree for many reasons
The police having weapons isn’t the problem with policing in the US, it is a lack of training and oversight.
There is much truth to this. I’d say it’s a lack of training, oversight, AND the entire policing culture needs to be changed. But the more rights you take away from citizens the harder it becomes to change any of this
Taking up arms against the police is to accept all but certain death at the hands of the police, and the outcomes that aren’t death are all spending life in prison. The cops who end up killing you or stopping you will be praised as heroes, not tyrants. Your violence will meet nothing you aim to accomplish: it will not save you, and it will not result in anyone thinking you as a martyr, or even on the moral high ground.
The issue is bigger than me or what my individual outcome might be. To be clear… I am NOT advocating for killing cops! But it would’ve been nice to see a 3rd armed passenger in Castile’s car or some passerby bring that cop to justice. Ditto for the cop who slammed a black teenager to the ground (in Florida I think) and started smashing his head against the concrete pavement. That cop was in the act of committing attempted murder of an unarmed innocent citizen. I wouldn’t shed a tear if someone in the crowd popped him in his head. Of course, you’re right and that person would’ve had 30 rounds unloaded into him, but he’d die a martyred hero in my eyes
I’m going to end my involvement ITT before people start switching their labeling of me from a troll to a cop killer. I am NOT advocating that! But I am amazed and very disappointed at how many just accept what many cops get away with. I bet the next time some cop kills another unarmed black dude for no fucking reason whatsoever the very same people who are now saying they’re fine with cops having all this power over us will be falling over themselves to express their outrage
And I can’t just let you get away with this. Are you telling me you’re okay with a cop body slamming a harmless teenager to the ground and smashing his head against the pavement? I’ll give you enough respect to assume of course you’re not. But what if the judicial system does nothing as per usual? Then what’s your solution? Just to keep wringing our hands and let it keep happening?
You’re telling me there’s a situation where these guys end up as heroes in your eyes? Scenes like this in America are much more frightening to me than a lawfully owned assault rifle
Dude in any scenario where shooting at the police became politically viable I’d take the crates of guns and explosives smuggled in from overseas over your hoarded civilian crap any day.
This is the reason everyone thinks you’re some troll. Your whole world view is completely nonsensical. If there’s one thing that’s pretty much stayed consistent through the world since 1920 (except in North Korea, but that’s a very special case) it’s that a deeply unpopular government will eventually be overthrown by the people using weapons sourced from foreign governments.
Even your doomsday scenario we’re still better off banning guns and saving 40k lives a year.
