There were quite a few making a solid case that this wasn’t a garbage take.
I’m at post #2349.
Ok. So it’s at least as much of a cuse problem as a nun problem?
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You’re capable of realizing you have not been a very sympathetic character here, right? Even if all the attacks are wrong - your words are in plain sight in this thread. Many of them recently. If you don’t want to have your character assassinated, stop doing things that prove them right.
Stop being condescending when challenged, stop the personal attacks, maybe tone down the verbosity in your posts by 20% and I think the forum as a whole would mostly forget about this. Blaming your own behavior on others is never a good look.
Or just come back on another username and do what I suggested. Just honest advice.
And to answer your question - yes, I would absolutely fight back if the accusations were untrue. But I would also do some self reflection first to see if my own behavior was a factor in the conflict. I suggest you do the same.
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I’ll ask nurse to prepare your room.
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Fuck I was about to go to sleep though; will there still be a forum in 7-9 hours?
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And we had a debate in good faith with quite a few.
I went back and skimmed the past few hundred posts. One thing that comes out pretty clearly is that this forum is by and large a collection of thoughtful and empathetic people who can talk about some pretty difficult issues. That’s something of an internet miracle. It’s been really helpful to me during some stressful times, and I’m sure it has been helpful to others. I don’t think we should exclude someone from the forum lightly.
Should we allow people with different opinions, people who are hard-headed, people who write long posts, people who may have a hard time letting things go? Yes to all of the above. Is it OK for posters to personally attack one another? Absolutely not. But I also think we need to give posters a chance to grow and change.
My own posting history hasn’t been stellar. I was at 2p2 since 2005 and here since however long. I’ve been a dick to a lot of you at some point or another. I know I was a real dick to jmakin when he first joined 2p2, and I was a dick to ggoreo when he was an OOT mod, and the list could go on. I’m sorry for that, and I’m trying to do better. I think other people should get the chance to do better too.
So without knowing the whole story of all the complaints in this thread, I’ll say it looks to me like there has been some legitimate constructive criticism aimed at multiple posters. If posters are willing to take that and try to grow, then they should get to stick around. If posters are consistently bad, not just in the sense of having no content or bad quality content but actually harming other posters, and they refuse to improve, that’s when we should think about banning them.
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You literally just voted for someone still making personal attacks in this very thread in the last hour to suffer no consequence for it. I like you man and I agree with your post. I am not ever for adverse action on anyone posting in good faith. Nunn hasn’t been doing that for a good portion of his posting history though. Go look at the screenshots a few posts up and tell me that is ok. Go look through the compiled posts he made in the bailout thread that I posted yesterday. He is still doing a version of that today.
If you think the person responding to the shitty posting is equally to blame for the shitty posting, yes.
If you think the person trying to hold someone accountable to their record is equally to blame as the person who refuses to acknowledge it and is somehow condescending despite being wrong all the time, yes.
If you think the person insulting the views/record is equally to blame as the person calling others non-entities and monsters, yes.
Just a general observation but it can be a very frustrating experience to go against the forum zeitgeist on a hot-button topic. I recently had to ban myself and mute a thread because I was getting too worked up and definitely felt like I was defending a lot of attacks on my character.
I feel like the zeitgeist people would say the same thing - that it felt like I was attacking them personally. It’s hard to wade into a pool of people who passionately agree on something and disagree with them - but somehow keep it cordial. I don’t have the social skills to pull it off.
I have written thousands of words and then deleted before hitting post while trying to process all of this feedback.
I ended up with this question. Would the people who experience abuse from nunnehi’s actions continue to experience abuse if they never interacted with him again?
I think the answer there is no, but it’s hard to say unless those same people go ahead and put him on ignore for a while and see what happens.
The more urgent question for me is whether the threat of his abuse represents a significant danger to current and future posters.
Current posters have made a heartfelt case ITT. I want to go on the record acknowledging the abusive impact nunnehi’s behavior has had on you. I see you.
Those posters can of course make an informed decision to put nun on mute or ignore. But that does not answer my concern for future posters. Or, as cuse suggests, lurkers who have not added their voices.
Future posters are likely to engage with him in ignorance and good faith and yet will have a very high chance of experiencing abuse from his actions. He has a collection of abusive tactics that would make even an otherwise healthy person retreat, let alone those among us who carry the scars of former abuse.
So while I am generally an anarcho-communist who also feels the value of pacifism in my soul, there are times where I believe government intervention is valuable for the well-being of the community. I believe this is one such situation where containing or banning nunnehi is warranted.
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And people should note that some of those screenshots are from 1.5 years ago and it’s been an issue his entire time here, and it’s been brought up repeatedly.
Alright I’m going to take a real shot at this and then duck out for a while.
I think we need some intermediate interventions somewhere between “do nothing” and containment/banning. These are stressful times for everyone, and I have a pretty good feeling that some of the challenges re: letting things go reflects the social nature of this forum. We’re not just sharing ideas, we’re building connections - and we don’t react positively when it feels like those connections are at risk. Given that, I’m a little uncomfortable with our first response being solutions that result in forced isolation.
I’m not sure what’s available on the software side, but the first suggestion that comes to mind is to have options for limiting posting frequency - initially for a defined time period. If someone on the forum gets overly fired up and can’t stop responding to perceived insults in-kind, can we give them something like three days of posting only once/hour? Seems like a decent solution both to cut down on thread-clogging and to give offenders more time for self-regulation/reflection prior to spamming negative responses.
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Lol i don’t even remember that, the amount of people that have been dicks to me that are now fine with me is probably large. I was an obnoxious moron 12 years ago. I was also young and dealing with a lot of very difficult problems, and the obnoxiousness has lingered with me a bit into my thirties, but I genuinely try not to aggravate.
I basically don’t think it’s much to ask of someone to not be annoying.
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I’m capable of knowing I’m polarizing. I’m capable of knowing a ton of people here are polarizing. Yet I’m singled out for doing much less than others because they disagree with me or feel my voice is persuasive when they want to be doing the persuading. Most of the people I’m in disagreement with have a completely different worldview than I do and attack my worldview as invalid. That’s the real problem here. No one is going to change my worldview and I’m not trying to change anyone else’s.
And again, I’m not being condescending to anyone. If you read it that way, that’s fine, but as I once said to you you’d know when I’m being condescending.
I’ll also say this for the last time. I don’t police anyone’s posting style and don’t think you should either. I don’t think anyone should. I’m being me, if that fits, fine. If not, fine. But I’m not going to roll over when my character is assassinated. When you hear someone in a movie or TV show saying, ‘I am not the one’, that’s me when my character is being assassinated.
Nothing in my behavior justifies anyone lying about my character, so no I won’t self-reflect on that. I’m fully aware of who I am and how I come across to people who don’t like me even if it’s not what I’m actually doing. I’m still gonna be me, just like I want you to be you.
This thread is a consequence. Containment is too strict imo. Containment should be for trolls who don’t even try to contribute.
I would however be all for mandatory cooling off periods when things get too heated. 2p2 temp-bans were usually the best things that happened to me in the heat of the moment.
I actually specifically brought you up ITT based on our posting in the COVID thread as an example of people disagreeing in a somewhat heated back and forth without (hopefully) taking it personally and being able to dunk and be dunked on without getting upset or hating each other.
Gotta disagree with you here (unless I misunderstand you). This might be your first encounter with a response to this situation, but this is light years beyond the first response or first discussion. People are kind of at wits end because their attempts at less extreme measures have not helped them.
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Im telling people not to post with him like he said he would not with you and others.
Where is the double standard?
How in the world is this thread a consequence? He is here taking a victory lap. Maybe containment is too harsh but I would posit nunn has been warned repeatedly by most of the regs and literally nothing has changed.
I’m not for a forum that allows repeated abusive personal insults. Full stop.
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