Mental Health Thread

Sundry Chitchat
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I get generalized anxiety without the panic attacks (or without bad ones anyway) but it has sometimes been pretty bad. By way of establishing my credentials as someone who has lived through this shit, I remember on one of the first anxiety attacks I had, like 3 days in, comforting myself with the thought “well if this continues, I can always kill myself”. It seems like a ridiculous thought to me now, but that’s where I was at at that point.

I think that by even having a debate with yourself about whether you’re really suffocating, you’re playing by the anxiety’s rules and granting it a power it does not possess. It’s ultimately irrelevant whether you believe it or not, since the panic attack will pass just the same. You might have a bad time in the meantime, is all.

I found learning calm and concentration meditation helpful in building in an understanding that the mind is like an ocean which sometimes becomes stormy, but will naturally become calm again of its own accord if left to do so. It’s not that meditative techniques are very helpful when I have acute anxiety, it’s that repeatedly observing the process of a calming mind builds in a bedrock confidence about the inevitability of this. I think this is the same thing Chesspain means about “believing you will be OK no matter what”. To continue the storm metaphor, it’s like a dog scared of a thunderstorm. Sure, it’s better if you can calm the dog down in the moment, but ultimately it doesn’t matter if it goes apeshit, because storms don’t last and when it passes, the dog will calm down.

This can sound like One Weird Semantic Trick, but it’s a process of building confidence and certainty. It doesn’t defeat anxiety in the moment, but gradually situates you as an external observer rather than someone who is required to become embroiled in the circus going on in your mind.

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I like this, and the rest of the post. Thanks for the insight Chris.

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I saw a therapist yesterday, for the first time in several years. Recent relationship problems have really shaken me, and left me realizing how little support I had. So this week I joined a gym, made some yoga plans and found the therapist. If I could just sign up for some friends, this shit would be easy.

My reading list lately has been stuff like Echart Tolle’s The Power of Now, which is basically a how-to on reaching enlightenment/awareness. It is focused on awareness and meditation to break the link between our sense of who we are and the thoughts in our mind.

I am also currently reading Tolle’s A New Earth, which I think may be even better, but Power of Now is the place to start.

I don’t know if any of this is really helpful or I’m just talking to myself, but …

I had my first panic attack about eight years ago, on the way back from a trip to Puerto Rico. That morning my girlfriend and I packed our things and were waiting on an airport shuttle when I had the overwhelming NEED to be in the water. I had to be–which was kind of odd, a little, since like many people I get that anxious-and-not-totally-comfortable feeling in open water. Jaws, yo.

But I HAD to be in the water and so I got my swim suit out of my bag and went in. And I was overcome with a sense of peace like I’d only felt a few times. Thinking about it now makes me want to sob. I was a child again, completly worry-free.

So two hours later we’re on the airplane and the doors are closing and something snapped. Shortness of breath, the thoughts rushing, shaking, about to cry. I had no idea what was happening.

Since then, I’ve struggled with anxiety. And after years, have begun to see meditation as the way to find peace. …Though I have liimted success with actually ending suffering, I can start to see progress in terms of greater awareness of my thoughts and ego.

So now, present day, it seems a relationship is ending/may be ending/has ended. And the pain is intense. Hence seeing the therapist, the gym, etc.

I found this therapist by searching Psychology Today profiles for buddhists and cross-referencing that with my insurance provider list. One name seemed to match. She recommended a meditation and philosophy center near me, so I will look into that soon.

But … the root of this suffering, maybe all suffering, seems to be my identification with my ego and thoughts and body. But to be clear, thinking I see that link doesn’t fix it. I meditate but the pain is like a physical presence, a body inside my body. And the loss of a partner feels like a physical absence, the loss of an identity or role.

I plan on mediating and taking lsd soon. I wrote on 22 a while back about my use of acid and consciousness expansion and ego death. I’ve both had amazing and scary(negative) experiences. While I have a slight concern, I think a lot of the work I’ve done lately is helping me not worry.

If any of this resonates with you, I would really recommend reading Power of Now. Rather than feeling new-agey, the book simply makes sense in a way that may resonante with the analytical folks around here.

The basic message is that the vast majority of people act insane and unconsciously choose suffering because they identify with their mind and thoughts. All fears are fear of death.

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I’m a fucking wreck today. …a while back I developed a hernia, which is basically no big deal. But, partially with the encouragement of my ex-ish, I made arrangements to have it fixed.

Anyway today was the pre-op surgery appointment and I’m trying hard to fight off an anxiety attack or 3. This awful mix of fear x feeling alone, since I can’t really count on her to help me w the surgery+recovery.

Nothing seems to be helping; I went to the gym, I’ve meditated, I just told my editor I need to log off for the day. The only thing left seems to be eating, so there’s probably 5,000 calories in my future.

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Sorry to hear you’re going through so much all at once. That must be insanely difficult. It sounds like you’re taking a lot of proactive steps to help, which is (to me at least) impressive in itself. If you find writing it all out helpful, you should continue to post. I’m finding it comforting to read about other people’s experiences, even though I obviously wish you weren’t dealing with it.

As expected I had a pretty bad panic attack last night. I think that DrChesspain was right that I am still actually very scared of suffocating as it’s happening. It feels like I’ve been in a state of mild confusion throughout the day today, and I still feel a lot of anxiety. I think my wife doesn’t quite know how to react to it, and it all just feels embarrassing. Like, I’m sure it will pass in a few days but I genuinely feel like I’m losing my marbles sometimes.

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Yeah, I think there is a big gulf (for me, for sure) between knowing something on an intellectual level and believing it, or living it. So while you may know, your sober mind may know, that you won’t die from a panic attack, your subconscious may not.

I really am trying to take care of myself, but at the same time I can feel old patterns wanting to emerge.

On some level, the pain is … interesting. The relationship I’m mourning was not particularly long–four months or so. But it did get pretty serious, or at least we contemplated the future and maybe I got stuck there.

For instance: She has kids, and I really enjoyed playing a small role with them. I took them to appointments, school play practice, cooked them dinner. I was never going to be “dad” but the beginnings of that new role or responsibility felt good.

I say this, because on some level I think the pain I feel so acutely is my ego struggling with the loss of that “role.”

When I say all of this, it’s stuff I’ve read and believe but struggle to fully live. Clearly.

So, Sapo’s ego maybe latched onto this new “role,” which is what egos do. And with the relationship ending, Sapo loses not just a partner but a role, which is basically the ego itself once it identifies with the role. Death.

So the key (to ending all suffering) is to disidentify with the ego, the mind, the thoughts. Which makes a lot of sense to me. It feels logical. But making that a lived experience is hard.

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This could go in healthcare thread but I saw a therapist for a year or so and it helped and I got to a good place I think, stopped seeing her but really wanting to try someone else now. she was good for me but I feel like she wasn’t onboard with some of my lifestyle and kinda tended to be dismissive of it.

Anyways so I’m looking for a new one, found one that looks good but when I reached out apparently she only takes Medicaid or cash at like $140 a pop. I called their office and I guess she’s not in network yet with my insurance provider and there’s no way I can pay 140 a visit so I guess I’ll keep looking

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Does your insurance provider give you somewhere in your account to search for healthcare providers? It should show you results that are only in network. Then you can do a google search for the ones that come up that you think you might want to see so you can get a bit more info about them.

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I staved off an anxiety attack by naming things I could see, smell, hear, etc today. Never heard of that before. Thanks, thread.

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How are your doing @ElSapo?

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Hey. Thanks for asking. … Good question. At this moment I feel anxiety rising, but in general I’ve been feeling better. The girl and I have been looking at things, but I suspect that means a slower breakup, frankly.

There just doesn’t seem to be a lot of joy in it, from her perspective. I still feel the way I feel.

One thing she has said, and I kind of agree with her in some respects: There are “two Sapos,” in a way. One is confident and doesn’t need anything. The other is not. He is less secure and seems to need something from the relationship and other people.

I don’t disagree. I know both guys and agree that one is more attractive than the other. But, practically speaking, I don’t think most people are always their best selves. And so I think for most relationships, that means learning to love both. She doesn’t.

I have started attending meditations at a local center for philosophic studies. Spring is coming, and hopefully that will boost my mood. I’ve really been trying to be out more, more social. But I’m definitely still not in the best place.

Does anyone else struggle with this–presenting their best self? Or just being a better version?

I really do know what she means. There is the me that interacts with strangers, kids and dogs, that wants nothing. That guy is cool. My therapist asked me, on a scale of 1 to 10, how much I like myself. I like the me now, about a 3. The other guy is more like an 8 or 9.

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One thing weighing on me: I have surgery next week. It is fairly minor, hernia repair, but surgery nonetheless, complete with general anaesthesia and some downtime. It feels like the sort of thing I should be able to shurg off, but it’s made me more anxious and highlighted my lack of a wide support network. … in the same day I can feel really good and hit some nasty low points.

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What do you think is the difference between the self you manifest with strangers vs a person you have an ongoing relationship with over time?

In my view, the things you are describing strike me as the normal imperfections of a person we discover as we get to know someone and gauge our compatibility over time. It’s okay to say wow, the New Relationship Energy with you was great, but we really aren’t meant for long term.

In the words of Dan Savage, a relationship isn’t a failure just because it ends. Most do.

And in the words of…was it Marc Maron? Boredom is a part of any healthy lifestyle and any healthy relationship, but if the person isn’t FUCK YEAH about being with you, it’s kind of obvious. And the same in reverse.

If it’s just that person, it’s just that person. But if you can’t be intimate with anyone, then sure, you probably have a problem with vulnerability. That’s okay too. You work on it a little each day without forcing yourself to be ready for something that’s not in the cards today.

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In these trying times

UNSTUCK IS HERE FOR YOU :heart:

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I can relate to this a lot, and really struggled with it towards the end of my last relationship. Your breakup sounds very similar to the one I went through–neither of us were truly happy, and we were both living as the 3/10 versions of ourselves for a long time. Post-breakup, despite feeling like we had lost our chemistry towards the end of the relationship, I felt incredibly alone like I’d lost my best friend. I struggled through the winter (I’m no stranger to seasonal depression, and this made it worse). My GP diagnosed it as dysthymia, but I never sought treatment for it.

It sounds really cliche, but getting back into a gym habit and getting outdoors (I joined multiple beach volleyball leagues and made some new friends) really helped me increase the amount of time I spent as my 8/10 self rather than the 3/10 self. I imagine therapy can help too–I’ve never gone through that so can’t offer advice there, but I know many here can.

Now that I’m a year and a half removed from the breakup, I’m able to appreciate the things I learned about myself during that relationship. I think everyone has their 3/10 days, and a truly strong relationship both means your partner will love you when you’re a 3/10 AND they understand you enough to help pull you back up to 8/10.

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So, that’s obviously a bit of a complicated question. And I’ll probably over-answer it, if I let myself. And frankly, when I dwell there can be a spiral-effect. And I’m also answering in terms of the consciousness work I’ve been doing.

The self which manifests with strangers feels like a true self. I’m not judging or thinking. Me+the right amount of alcohol can manifest this. My sense of humor coming through, also brings this out–because my humor tends to come from some kind of automatic place.

This doesn’t always happen. And worry over the relationship has both made it come up more, and probably made me think it’s happening more than it is. But …

The self that wants something is seeking some form of validation. This self sees the relationship as validation. … I have at times definitely been a “serial monagamist.”

I’ve been journalling a fair bit lately, and it’s helped me see a couple of patterns–things that existed in past relationships, signalled an end, showed me things were off … many are present here. But I struggle to accept this. I still see the potential, still enjoy the moments with her when things are easy, still love the time I spend with her kids.

I can also see that things haven’t been consistently “right” for a while.

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Yeah I’ve been in the gym a lot lately (relative to past times, anyway). It does help–and if nothing else gives me something to do.

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It is probably not actual support I lack. I do have some friends, a brother, the girl, who will help get me home. I absolutely agree that when someone asks for help, they find it. The anxiety may be rooted in self-pity, hard as it is to say that.

This thread makes me sound horrible, but then again I suppose I only post here as the 3/10 guy.

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I guess the thing that stands out for me, and this is just my opinion, is that you feel needy when your primary relationship is full of neglect. I’ve known you for what…over ten years now??? Do you see yourself as a needy person?? I have searched and searched and have never had that impression of you.

It’s equally dysfunctional to be totally isolated as it is to be trump-like addicted to validation, but validation and assurance are otherwise components of a healthy relationship. To need them is normal and worth being celebrated.

I might be inserting a little of myself here, I just keep hearing your experience of this girl and this relationship and thinking you don’t sound like a bad person, you sound like you’re in an unsatisfying relationship. One in which you are dating a person who for you is hyper-critical. Their praise is as euphoric as their criticism is shattering.

Everyone acts like shit and feels like shit when they’re in the stages of a breakup. Or at least a really rough patch. Be gentle with yourself, Sapo. You are a good person when you don’t stick tight in bad situations.

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Thank you – I think your post is spot-on in many ways. I really appreciate it.

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