Yeah, being a GG and Taibi fan in 2021 is pretty wild.
But what Keed said about being a troll isn’t even remotely true. He admittedly trolled the shit out of that deflategate 2p2 thread and I believe a few other time on 2p2. I actually like Keed as a poster but i never know what level he is on lol
Fidget kicked off a COVID discussion with an article linking an unvaccinated soccer player’s heart issues to a COVID vaccine (which is why I responded). He then made very obtuse points about a paraphrase in the article. All responses were very polite and treated him as if he was posting in good faith. He then went into a PM thread and bragged about how he was fucking with the people and victory lapped, i dont know, people responding politely to his post with real answers and people not answering questions that didnt make a lot of sense, which we now know is because he was “just JAQng off”
Not like the guy should be executed, I didnt even vote for a perma, but defending his behavior is super confusing. I dont think any of the people posting have opined on a way to improve the forum experience as post anti-COVID vax tinged articles then waste peoples time following up on the subject with nonsense in a failed attempt to impress fellow travellers.
EDIT: This is what he posted to kick off the discussion. Eriksen wasn’t vaccinated. Then he linked to an article about heart issues with vaccines. Apparently all to own other posters. That is not defensible behavior.
Hopefully this is just disinformation.
Saw it linked where somebody was claiming Eriksen’s collapse was caused by a vaccine.
Note - these are not my views.
Look, it’s impossible for me or anyone to assess the veracity of your claims about the context of the covid bullshit based on disjoint, censored snapshots that don’t even include the posts in question. But even just taking you at your word, trying to win a debate against a slippery opponent is not a good reason for wasting everyone’s time with a bullshit question in an important thread.
No, I told you what I meant, and it wasn’t that I was mad that he was being nice.
This is why I sometimes try to spend time trying to get agreement on basic definitions. But even if people are working off of different definitions, it is sometimes possible to get a Rawlsian overlapping consensus on deeming some behaviors to be trolling. I think anyone who hasn’t tried to offer a working definition of trolling is contributing to this mess. (Giving examples and taking an “I know it when I see it” attitude is not a definition and not helpful.)
Bad faith is about being deceptive as to your true intentions. Arguing sincerely from a position based on incorrect memories of bad assumptions about that thread is not bad faith. It may be dumb, however.
My PMs with Sabo suggest that an invite-only subforum is not the goal, at least on his part.
Because we are dealing with meta-political ideas where some people seem to see the moderation debate here as an existential of existential threats they perceive in the world outside of the confines of this forum.
I give Keeed plenty of shit in the Greenwald thread, but I wouldn’t try to stop him from posting about it via moderation tools.
Sheds a tear at not being invited
Is it possible he initially began in good faith, but shifted into troll mode once Wookie became involved in the discussion (though this was probably inevitable)? I get that some people view the covid thread as the best part of the forum and want to protect it as being as sacrosanct as the mental health thread (one reason why Sabo’s attack on jmakin was troubling).
Would you have modded fidget less harshly if it had occurred in an “unimportant” thread?
Can’t work out how to link to his post correctly but I remember respondiing to it and can link to that
I have a different understanding of how that bit of conversation went - you can jump around easily on the above link - it was short.
Hoping he doesn’t get “churchilled” - posting links to a reputable publications and being replied to as though those were your views - was in vain.
The stuff he claimed was top trolling of CN & Wookie I remember reading and just thought he was being a bit of a prick and was trying to catch CN out - and I didn’t care much about that as that thread was ruined along time ago by the same and personally I just skim it for quality links and mostly ignore the rest.
Fidget is not alone in behaving in ways that I’d rather people didn’t - but it’s not permabannable imo.
shrug - what to do?
This.
Since this thread is about fidget ban, i voted no for permaban but that doesn’t mean his behavior should be accepted and that he doesn’t deserve a ban of some length.
I voted perma because I think in practice all permas are actually just indefinite. I would have voted for month or indefinite ban over perma but those weren’t options.
Take a month off, show some contrition and know you’re on a short leash for a while when you come back. True trolls will never do that. But a decent poster who maybe just got caught up in the moment and actually wants to add to the conversation might. It seems like a great filtration process.
Me too. I saw the exchange live in the covid thread (sad as I am), sitting out my two weeker ban and wasn’t invited to the PM, at that point.
I did see an original post, posted in good faith and with learned caveats attached, be turned into Fidget’s very own work / beliefs and denounced by the usual suspects within say 3 mins of the original post.
The pile on was swift even by Churchill standards - must have been nice to have somewhere to vent, momentarily. Not impressed that FidgetUK got perma’d via a venting post in a PM.
Hoping he doesnt get “churchilled” paints himself in way too favorable of a light. I interacted many times with Churchill with no real issues that I remember and advocated for him not to self ban. That was obviously part of the trolling in this case.
[quote=“NotBruceZ, post:278, topic:5408”]
Is it possible he initially began in good faith, but shifted into troll mode once Wookie became involved in the discussion (though this was probably inevitable)? I get that some people view the covid thread as the best part of the forum and want to protect it as being as sacrosanct as the mental health thread (one reason why Sabo’s attack on jmakin was troubling).
[/quote]
No. He literally told us otherwise.
.
I’m not on a team in the broader fight, just think this is one of the more blatant examples of bad behavior and have seen too many forums ruined by bad-faith trolling.
While I likely will lurk as I enjoy reading several threads and the thoughts many posters on here, I dont really have much interest in this ongoing shitshow. Most of you are well meaning, and I learn a lot from many of you, so I wish everyone the best at figuring out a way forward.
Can we get an RFC to name the new cliquey sub forum, if it happens, The Insurrection?
The entire site definitely needs to be involved in the naming of any sub forum.
Anyone can start an RFC. Be the change that you desire.
I mean, sure, but now imagine if you were an editor without even access to the rough copy. Imagine how ludicrous that presented context could be!
Specifically, I liked you man, you’re the one who doesn’t like me, remember.
But, as this shakes out, are we actually settling on, “Those people that were derided and ostracized and insulted for months upon months as stupid worthless trolls, well, they’re big meanies who did a othering to me and that’s not nice!” This all might be the wildest thing I’ve ever read.
You’ll be missing out on somebody telling you what you need to hear, but I don’t know if that’s a loss or gain.
Lol how is this even real.
Srsly, this goes to everybody: just fucking stop using terms if you don’t know what they mean. If you can’t express a series of thoughts without buzzword crutches maybe stfu and don’t run your mouth?
WOWOW JAQ OFF MUCH
Any self-respecting community would ban you for this “When did you stop beating your wife and how do you feel about it?” drivel.
That’s because I’m not defending his behavior, I’m addressing this below, and was told this thread was the appropriate venue:
Just, think about what a literal victory lap is. Like, on an actual track at a track-and-field meet.
Ok, this is where I think the problems are occurring. It’s not within your purview to assess the veracity of my claims; it’s within mine to assess the veracity of yours.
The redacted part was already posted, otherwise I wouldn’t have redacted it.
The posts in question have already been shown. I said I was providing the context surrounding them. And you’re saying I’m somehow pulling a fast one by not also including the posts everybody has seen more than once? That hardly seems fair.
No remorse at all. Just mental gymnastics.
I haven’t been posting here since February so I’m really not up to speed on the latest bits of drama going on. But any credibility I gave to fidget’s complaints of biased modding are gone, any credibility I gave to keeeeed just being contrary is gone, any credibility I gave to you is gone.
PM amongst yourselves and bitch about the modding, that’s fine. PM about how to make the forum a better place, that’s fine. But PM about how you’re just fucking with the mods and are trying to piss people off and you’re done. How is anyone supposed to believe anything you or keed or Sabo or fidget or anyone else embroiled in that PM says going forward?
JMakin should be placed in the same boat. He can’t be trusted any longer and if he still has any access he shouldn’t.
Like, wat in God is all this “please provide evidence and have the veracity of that evidence properly assessed” like bitch innocent-until-proven-guilty is a lie you tell yourself if you can’t even practice it on Just An Internet Forum.
Tbh though they’re not even going guilty-until-proven-innocent, they’re going guilty-until-proven-guilty, but whatev.
I know your go to is “BUT NO ONE ACTUALLY READ IT” but like most of us read some and some of us read all of it and the whole innocent child routine you are shooting for here is pretty insulting.
Yes it wasn’t Mein Kampf. But a lot of people here were insulted by the Captains one way or another. A few people who had been swearing up and down they weren’t just trolls admitted it. And there was a decent amount of plotting of trying to pull half the forum to Saboville. So far by my count we have zero people apologizing for any of that. We only have a bunch of people telling us we didn’t read what we did. Or we did read what we did but we don’t really understand because we didn’t read all of it. Or we did read all of it, but we haven’t seen how diabolical the mods have been in one of the 987 threads whining about mods.
You are a smart guy. Most of us here aren’t morons. Your entire posting on this just doesn’t hold water. Sorry.
You can tell you didn’t read it because no one wants to go to Sabo’s site. This has been repeated over and over. But none of y’all read.
Can you invite me to your sub forum? I’ll only post garbage and absolute drivel, but I have a right to exist!
There was literally none of this. None.
Micro suggested a few times that a different board would be better than a sub forum here, most people disagreed, and there was never any plotting or attempts to convince anyone (even those in the thread) to leave.
It is absolutely fucking bonkers that you guys concocted your own version of what went on in the PM and are now just running around posting moralistic bullshit about it.