I guess my PMs weren’t working…
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Grunch
As someone who was chastised to the point of being accused of anti UK bias and “not understanding British culture” (whatever the fuck that even is) for calling out the UK clique well over a year ago I’ll take my mint julep now, extra minty please.
I voted no because I concur pretty much completely with Monster regarding permas and I can only vote based on the way the pole was written.
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Grunching before and after:
The context surrounding the trolling topic was them discussing what the word itself even means, and if they’ve ever accidentally or intentionally trolled themselves.
Ked has a very specific and old-school definition of trolling (which is the same as mine, but this was before I entered the PM thread) and Johnny has a different one, and Fidget has a different one from both of them. Johnny gave an example in which he thought he was trolling, intentionally (which, not incidentally, was an example that nobody here would probably think is ‘trolling’). Fidget did the same.
So, for example, despite Johnny and Fidget both ‘admitting to trolling’, Ked and I would say they didn’t, because what they described is not trolling.
Somebody here might say that every post I’ve ever made has been trolling, and I might understand that after I heard their definition.
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Seriously, what in the absolute fuck is wrong with you people that you are doing this?
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Lol “it’s like a racist actually saying the N-word” imagine anybody ever treating that dude like he’s a serious person.
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What is your definition of trolling?
This is from the Wikipedia article on “Internet troll”, which is more or less what I would use (which is why I get annoyed at certain people accusing me of trolling at times, because I am sincere in my posting):
In internet slang, a troll is a person who posts inflammatory, insincere, digressive, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog), with the intent of provoking readers into displaying emotional responses, or manipulating others’ perception. This is typically for the troll’s amusement, or to achieve a specific result such as disrupting a rival’s online activities or manipulating a political process. Even so, Internet trolling can also be defined as purposefully causing confusion or harm to other users online, for no reason at all.
A case could be made that fidget’s behavior fits exactly this.
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When the c-word extravaganza happens i said this won’t end until they perma jal, fidget etc. it was an inevitable conclusion
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There’s a very long-standing distinction between the statements “[poster] is trolling” and “[poster] is a troll”. I don’t know fidget very well, nothing I’ve seen or heard about suggests to me that he is a troll.
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Lol at twisting yourself into a pretzel w/o providing a shred of evidence, just a bunch of hand-waving, to claim that a poster bragging “I successfully trolled” is not actually evidence of trolling.
Poster intended to troll, bragged about trolling, but you claim he didn’t do a good enough job of it or something. Trolling is intent. It’s bad faith. Bragging about it plenty enough proof.
Pro tip: when you find yourself through the looking glass like this, it usually means you’re on the wrong side of the argument. Or did I just get trolled and you guys are off laughing about this on discord somewhere?
I’ll go back to never reading any of your useless multi-quote never-ending stream of dribble posts now - as I’ve done for at least a year. I just noticed myself in that one as I skimmed by.
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He trolled this very poll determining his permaban for trolling. Don’t know what you call that but genuine remorse (or if I am a fool, the faking of such by sociopaths) goes a long way with me, and the opposite does…… well, the opposite.
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What with all the edits I was hoping you’d get around to the gibberish.
My main point is that it’s patently absurd to claim to understand something without reading it, even close to, in full. In fact, it’s the epitome of trolling itself, to seriously claim that one could make authoritative and definitive statements about a thing without having read said thing.
Seriously, imagine any other situation where you would or could, with a straight face, make some sort of passionate statement about something without knowing what it was. Aren’t you writing a book lol? Would you feel trolled if somebody read one random page in the middle and told you the plot sucked and made no sense? Or better yet, guessed the plot from that page incorrectly and told you it sucked and made no sense?
So it’d be fucking wild if after writing that gibberish, you went to brag about doing this trolling yourself…
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my balls are fucking tingling
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Look at that.
I have the most posts in that thread too! Ouch.
p.s. Yeah we’re laughing, but no, “getting trolled” also doesn’t mean, “I’m too lazy or neurotic or, let’s face it, too dumb to try to understand some simple shit somebody typed.”
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You saying all this is like a racist saying the n-word
Wild how you can say this man
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Hey, you guys remember when Donald Trump was constantly getting accused of sexual assault, and then one time he was caught on tape bragging about how he liked to sexually assault women, and then he was like “just locker room talk.” Good times.
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Well, is anyone going to offer up any evidence that there was in fact context that made the plain meaning of the words that were written something other than what was written, or do we just have to take on faith from the secretive folks wanting to start a new forum that we are too stupid to understand the plain meanings of words when divorced from secret context and that really one of people who have most assuredly looked like they were trolling the forums this whole time with bad faith bullshit was not confessing to bad faith bullshit when he said he was posting bad faith bullshit that sure as fuck looked to me like bad faith bullshit at the time he posted it even before having his confession outed?
@churchill below: I had been taking a break from modding. I was traveling to celebrate my dad’s birthday. That’s why I didn’t see the PM thread.
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Maybe if you took a break from modding for 6 months a sub-forum wouldn’t be required? The PM thread seemed to support that idea
Edit: ok, noted, but looks like the banhammer x6 was effected by you on your return… without seeing the PM
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Fair. But there seem to be plenty of posters who claim to want a sub forum… or different mods… or new mod rules… or a new admin… or to demod wookie…
Yet. Despite all this ongoing noise. Theres not a single RFC post proposing concrete, actual change. The longer that continues, the harder it is to believe that theres a good faith attempt to change the forum.
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I’ll go with if they behave like an immature git AND admit to constantly trolling they can be kicked to the curb.
We don’t need to agree on what the correct definition of trolling is. That is literally what people want as they continue to troll.
No we should be saying no to all the childish antics. Not going to play semantics with it.
Dude admitted he was trolling in messages so private it was a horrific act having them made public but then we still have a number of people who need more proof or a different definition of trolling.
Stop this nonsense.
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I think it was a good faith attempt by at least several of the departed posters, but to be clear my current assumption is that getting to the RFC stage now is a huge underdog. It’s more than just Keed, even though he was the one I highlighted in our reply chain. Too many of the key participants are either mod-banned or self-banned, and I think many of those self-bans are going to be permanent. As JT points out above, anyone remaining just has to read the room to see that it’s not the time and may never will be–people will just stop posting instead. This is why I noted in my other post that I’m extremely disappointed in jmakin’s actions since he effectively cut off any opportunity to actually act on what seemed like a good faith effort.
Basically, I don’t think the lack of an existing RFC says anything about the intent of those that participated.
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I’m not even sure why a proposal is necessary. When this place started, in my mind at least, it was supposed to be a place people could use in whatever way interested them. If someone wanted to blog, we’d have a place for blogs. If someone wanted to do a podcast, we’d have a podcast. If someone wanted to do something else, we’d make space for that.
I used to just give people whatever they asked for. Usually this was groups and flair. Once someone asked for a werewolf forum, so I cobbled something together and made a forum for werewolf. I stopped giving people whatever they requested when, after the first time I said no to a request,I was criticized for playing favorites. I decided the easiest way to deal with that was to just say no to everyone unless they got a mandate from the community.
In retrospect that was a mistake. To me this is a site for people to use in whatever way they wish (that doesn’t interfere with others’ enjoyment), and as admin, my role is to provide them the means to do so.
If I had never adopted my do nothing policy, here’s what would have happened in this situation: I would have seen a comment in a thread about wanting a new forum to try some different approach to governance and PM’d the person and offered to set it up. It never would have occurred to me that I was doing something untoward or that could be at all contentious.
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This is really important point. We need to strip away the overly complicated and onerous bureaucracy that has been assembled.
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The onerous bureaucracy is literally you just start a poll and ask jmakin to make it an official RFC thingy, look here’s an example anyone can follow. Why no one else who wants a new subforum has even tried this yet is beyond me.
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I don’t understand why people say this about the rule making process. Is it because it take two weeks at minimum to go from proposal to rule? There are reasons for that, and it’s not that long in the grand scheme of things, but it could also be changed if that is what the members want.
The reason we have a rule making process is because the members want community based governance instead of just delegating all decisions to the site runners.
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