Are you deaf? Do you spend lots of time with anyone who is deaf? If not, then I don’t really care what you think about how things are translated for them. You are Man Splaining how things should be based on your 2 seconds of thoughts about it. Great for sites that live off of user created content, but not so much for people who consume that user created content.
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I’ll buy this. It seems weird to me as well, but I think that’s different from the issue of it being impossible for a hearing person to learn.
Here’s a hypothethical: Let’s say we have one of these rare hearing savants that can sign just like a deaf person. They have dedicated their entire life to being able to do it. So they sign with some deaf people and fool them. Eventually, it is discovered that this person can hear. Do they feel betrayed at that point?
Are you literate? Serious question.
I have no problem believing that deaf people prefer a deaf person to translate for them. Nor do I have any real problem with them wanting that. That has nothing to do with the question I’m raising.
I’ve been good friends with many sign language interpreters. They’re like your analogy to French speakers moving to Paris: hearing people who are immersed in deaf culture and sign with deaf people practically all day, every day. They’re building that trust and learning the nuance because they’re living it and mimicking it the same way a hearing person learns language. They know the signs of the regional dialect, and they know that certain signs are part of the regional dialect. They know that facial expression is critical, because that’s how they communicate every day. One I’ve known worked at a video relay service so deaf people could call audio phone lines, so she had to know lots of regional variation to support deaf people from all over America.
Having a hearing signer sign to a deaf signer who’s the one seen by the audience is not common. Lots of hearing people do great signing directly to deaf people. It takes a lot of practice and ideally immersion, but it’s not unlearnable to the hearing.
My daughter has significant loss in one ear- probably since birth but we figured it in first grade. She is 25 now. Used an FM amplifier in grade school, rejected everything in the early teen years, now wears a hearing aid since high school junior.
She can sign but as she says more like a high school French student in Paris. Decent lip reader. Apparently she was in heavy demand an school dances (what’s he saying about me?).
She hasnt really been exposed to deaf culture that I know of. She had some issues with the good ear in 2019 that has alleviated but she is at risk so she has some tools but it would be a big transition for her. No idea if her kids are susceptible (expecting her first). Her husband learned to sign some as well so at least they have that ready if the time comes.
I don’t think I said it’s impossible for a hearing person to learn.
Here’s a question for you. Do you think you can learn a foreign language and be more fluent in that language than you are English?
Sorry for the thread derail LOL.
I am 6-4 230. I wear L, and sometimes M when I lose a few pounds or it wears large.
What?
sorry, had to be done
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Weird. I’m 6-4 and 230 (now, was 215 pre-covid and being stuck with hernia preventing exercise) and I was wearing L and most L are pretty tight and uncomfortable. I have a barrel chest though and wide hips so weird body shape I guess.
I know many people who have done exactly that.
It’s actually the most fascinating thing to me. I know plenty of people who grew up in another country speaking in another language, then they come here (almost always < 10 years old) and eventually they get to the point where even their own thoughts are in English. They can normally speak their native language just fine, but if you asked them to read literature or explain a complicated technical concept, their English is far superior.
But before they were 10 they thought in another language because that’s all they knew. I just can’t even fathom that. Anytime I encounter someone like that and get to know them, I always question them about the transition. They always think it was no big deal and they think I’m weird for thinking it is so amazing.
I’m sure a hearing person can be similarly fluent in ASL when equally immersed in a culture where that is the main language.
A lot of deaf people can’t read.
Yeah, this is my hypothesis as well. So, I guess my question was why can’t someone like that translate? It sounds like the answer is some combination of ‘Those people are very rare’ and ‘Even if a hearing person could do as well, deaf people prefer deaf translators’.
Now that is news to me. Really?
Obviously we’re excluding the blind ones, since they can’t see sign language either. So of the remaining, what percentage would you say can’t read? Before your post I would have guessed low single digits.
I’d say that immersive experience, where ASL is as prevalent as spoken tongues are in ours, doesn’t exist.
See Wookie’s post above. He describes people who are able to so immerse themselves.
Can a hearing person accurately sign the difference between XL and XXL?
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I’m talking about being able to think in something other than your native tongue. If an American deaf person doesn’t think in English, what sort of immersive ASL experience would make a hearing, native English speaker think in similar non-English terms?
Well prior to Matty’s last post, I would assume that any deaf person would think in the language they read and write in, which for an American, would usually be English. I can’t imagine what “thinking in ASL” would even be. It probably is a thing, but it’s hard to wrap my head around it.
I imagine that most deaf Americans still think in English + ASL (if that makes sense). So I suppose French or any other foreign language is not really a perfect example when trying to draw comparisons to ASL.