i’m pretty sure no one gives a fuck, but that tweet is dumb. living under rocket attacks is terrifying and basically none of you have ever lived through this. the fact that it is far more terrifying to live on the ‘other side’ doesn’t change that.
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How is the term being misused? I’m not really sure what you’re getting at.
By definition there is no Israel without Zionism. Her rhetoric is purposely implying that those hate groups from the religious right (which are too many, but still a small minority) are the only possible personification of zionism (aka - ~99% of the Jewish population of Israel). I’m not entirely sure how much you guys know about Israel other than ‘bad’ (which is a decent start, but not sufficient), so it’s hard to fully know how much you don’t understand.
In regards to what is happening now –
This escalation (there are ~5 million civilians inside bomb shelters in Israel at this second. which is not a good thing, even though the attacks in Gaza are worse more fatal) is exactly the same thing.
There are two sides here (Bibi, Hamas) who have a shared interest - to keep Bibi’s government of status-quo in check. There’s a new government that was suppose to form this week. Hamas don’t want it, as Bibi is the best thing that ever happened to them. Bibi obviously ain’t giving up his crown easy. So what we get is this.
So the only possible conclusion is that you cannot be a Zionist who opposes the occupation. Since there are literally millions of Jewish people, in Israel and outside of it, who define themselves as such, it must mean by definition that the occupation territory she is referring to is not the 1948 borders.
This is what I dislike about this conversation. And I’m pretty sure I had it with you. The logic always fails when pushed against, because for some reason people aren’t willing to say the only possible conclusion of their words. It’s the same as talking to right wing Americans.
It’s possible for people to mean for Israel as it was in 1948 borders and against Israel as is in 1967+ borders = Zionist. Or only people who want annexation to count as Zionist. Words are like that. You don’t get to tell people what they mean and if enough people agree with them they aren’t wrong even if the meaning is different than what it used to be.
See ‘Libertarian’. And words can mean different things in different places. Again, see ‘Libertarian’. (‘Liberal’ is a good one too.)
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There are millions of Israelis who oppose the occupation. There are almost no Jewish Israelis who define themselves as non-Zionist. There isn’t a single Jewish political party that is anti/post/non-zionist.
Words can mean anything, they also have consequences. I don’t see a single positive one that can be derived from this narrative. It is far closer do a dog whistle than anything else.
It doesn’t mean the same thing in the US. Discerning whether it’s being used as a dog whistle or not requires some judgement.
I hope the consequences are Israel stops killing Palestinians and gives back their land.
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This is all just depressing to me, as it’s my reality.
The ease in which Bibi and Hamas can escalate the situation. I still have very obvious PTSD symptoms from the last round of rocket attacks in 2014-15. And that’s from having barely a month of such attacks and no physical harm. I can’t even imagine what is like to live a few miles south and having those routinely, or just a few miles more to the south in Gaza and having that without any protection.
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I do too. I doubt we share similar desire when it comes to my family. That’s why it’s so easy to tilt me on the subject, because none of this has any consequences on your lives.
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What’s in it for Hamas to keep Bibi in power? Does he just provide them a foil that allows them to continue the cycle in perpetuity whereas a new government may attempt to compromise?
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Hamas were a fringe military ultra-religious group until Ariel Sharon and mostly Bibi after him gave them uncontrolled power over Gaza. They did so to undermine and weaken Abbas and the more secular and moderate leadership in the West Bank.
Any change in the status-quo is bad for Hamas dictatorship over Gaza.
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You’re talking to political nerds drawn from a pool of poker players and assume nobody here has any connection to jews or Israel?
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K,
Yep, that actress we’ve never heard of is horribly anti-semitic.
Seeing quite a bit of this trash in pro-Pal Twitter.
Are you suggesting there are anti-Semites who support Palestine?