Pretty sure that even if the Dems were just hammering home super simple messages that Trump is trying to rig the election, hes trying to destroy democracy etc people like Burr who are uninformed because they don’t give a shit would still throw their hands up and say who knows! Both sides are saying different things! Oh well back to sports.
The real problem is the Ukraine issue isn’t sexy enough for people who don’t care about politics for them to give a shit. Especially when the media is useless and the other side has zero shame and will muddy the waters.
You’re getting pissed off because the anecdote you want to beat up the left with is getting nit picked because you set it up wrong. You should have just said “they’re going to win because their wrong message is easier to understand than our right message” and left all of the “everyone outside of this forum is too stupid to get the right message” vibe unstated like it usually is…
It’s not a question of sexy or whatever, it’s just people really care about their immediate self-interest and all this high-minded stuff about the integrity of our elections or abuse of power is just political bullshit to them.
Dems don’t need to sexy up the Ukraine scandal, they need to pound the table on healthcare and wages and jobs. That’s how they won in 2018.
I agree with all of that. I was thinking in terms of getting people to pay attention and understand whats going on but you’re right, they still wouldn’t really give a shit.
Hopefully we get Bernie or Warren because I’m confident both of them will focus on those things and not just attacking Trump.
Yeah guys lets ignore blatant graft, allow foreign countries to interfere in our elections then run a DINO who can’t even conceive of universal healthcare or legalizing weed. Expert level strats ITT.
Who is advocating those strats? Was your “uhhh” reply to my post you thinking I was seriously suggesting voting for Joe Biden? I was trying to point out how bad it would be to make appealing to Bill Burr types a top priority in your politics, as following that road would lead to nominating Biden.
That type of take, but a little more sophisticated and a little less angry is what I have in mind if/when we get an outward facing news/opinion portion of the site going. Then pushing it out to Congress, social media, strategists, etc…
[quote=“JohnnyTruant, post:1761, topic:606, full:true”]
Trump is a fucking crook. He’s an idiot who is stealing tax revenue with several obvious scams, he attempted to withhold money illegally from an ally to defend themselves from Russia, a non ally, is exchange for them to announce investigations into a political rival. Investigations he didn’t even really expect to happen. It was so bad that his team broke protocol and hid the notes on a classified server to protect him. [/quote]
Man, you just don’t get it. It’s not about being sexy or simple. None of this shit matters to people who slog away 9-5 at bullshit jobs. Ask your server if she cares about Trump offering a quid pro quo to a Ukranian president. Then ask her if she cares about a $15 minimum wage or coverage for pre-existing conditions.
These people aren’t “simpletons,” they are just necessarily focused on things that directly affect them. When Dems run on kitchen-table issues, they win big like in 2018. When they focus on how Trump breaks norms and says mean things, they lose like in 2016.
Dems are like a drug dealer trying to figure out how he can sexy up crack cocaine. You don’t have to sexy up healthcare, my dude, that shit just sells itself.
Trolly gets it. The impeachment stuff is a separate thing from running an election stuff. The Harvard-Yale football game was delayed b/c a bunch of students stormed the field at halftime and protested Climate Change for an hour. It was coordinated b/c they knew it was going to be on ESPN. THAT’S what young people care about, not whether or not Schiff was too nice. Let the impeachment stuff play itself out w/ Schiff and Pelosi. They are not running for POTUS.
Seriously, fuck the GOP and ghouls that support Trump at this point. They are deplorables beyond saving. They only represent about 25% of the voters. You want to excite those that are not in a cult by talking about CC, wages, student loans, healthcare, etc. And if guys like Bill Burr are just like “I don’t see what’s going on here!” well then, fuck guys like Bill Burr. They are deplorables that couldn’t bother to give 2 shits about what’s really happening in this country.
Idk what your point is. This was cringeworthy and not because someone failed poor Bill Burr and people like him. The Democrats are on TV and the radio using the word bribery and extortion. Even the mainstream media has been fairly harsh on the Republicans by their standards. You want to blame the Dems because that’s what people do here. But you’re citing a willful know-nothing, a guy who apparently hasn’t consumed ANY news at all - he was even surprised to find out Ukraine was involved - and bemoan the failure of reaching him.
Your point would make more sense if you’re talking about paycheck to paycheck 9-5ers with kids like Trolly was talking about, but (a) Bill Burr doesn’t rep those people, and (b) as Trolly says, you don’t reach them with Ukraine impeachment scandals, you reach them on healthcare and wages.
All these NYT interviews of Deplorable diner patrons having breakfast in Midwestern suburbs. No one ever thinks of interviewing the servers or the prep cooks.
I’m pretty sure it’s like path of least resistance, pure laziness. The busboys ain’t got time for that shit, but Republican operatives posing as diner patrons are happy to talk.
No, it’s like no one even sees the servers or the cooks. It’s super-easy to interview them, the busboys are totally willing to talk on their break, but no one even considers it. It’s like that Sherlock Holmes story where the cabdriver is the murderer but no one even thinks about him because he’s just a cabdriver.
What you wrote there is just so on point and important. I mean, we are literally being led to destruction by the sub <70 IQ population who are too dumb to recognize the emperor has no clothes, while we sit here helpless waiting for those in charge to save us. The sheer evil and ridiculous lies coming from the Republican right are rivaled only by the utter and complete ineptitude of the Democratic left
It’s hard to overstate how bad the Dems strategy overall is and has been for decades. That’s why so many here rail against it. Did they do a good job with these few hearings? In a vacuum I would say objectively yes. But it accomplishes little to nothing. I’ll be shocked if it moves the RCP impeachment average 2 points. And what a lot of people don’t seem to get is that using all of your political capital to accomplish next to nothing is really bad and exactly how we got here.
And JT I do get your point. Basically going all in here on an issue that has no chance of swaying Joe SixPack means there is zero chance this is good politics overall. As I’ve said a few times if paying off a pornstar you fucked while your wife was pregnant doesn’t matter at all how in the hell can this. Of course if you dig into this it is really really bad. But your average dipshit just hears 24 seconds of Sinclair news every day. They don’t even know where Ukraine is. Schiff looks like a freaky alien fuck.
In short the war was lost during the Obama years when for a very brief time voting for a black guy and being a lib (neo-lib but still) was cool. All the people who went from voting for Bush to Obama got what exactly? That’s right jack shit. No hope, no change, no nothing. And so of course now they are tuned out and subscribe to the “both sides suck” narrative. Changing that is going to be impossible nearly. Trotting out Joe Biden and relatively complicated and nuanced articles of impeachment isn’t going to do it.
It’s only illustrative that severely, willfully ignorant people exist. It’s not a failure of the Dems to not reach a guy who doesn’t read or listen to the top headline for weeks of every non-rightwing major news source. When he Googled it, he literally found an article titled “Smoking Gun in Trump Impeachment,” (i.e. Trump is guilty), and then got upset when he clicked it because after the headline they were burdening him with a bunch of facts and information.
I get that you’re positing a familiar narrative that Dems fucked it up again. But they really didn’t this time. They did a good job. They had Gordon Sondland saying plainly “yes there was quid pro quo” and basically agreeing to the verbatim statute that an impeachable offense was committed. Dems even dumbed it down and started using “bribery” instead of quid pro quo. Every GOP talking point was debunked by witnesses, and every objective source said this was damning including the saner people on Fox News. When the articles of impeachment pass the House, the polling will probably get a slight uptick before falling back to its current levels. That’s just how it is. Donald Trump really could shoot somebody on Fifth Ave.
If you’re trying to posit Burr as representative of anything, he is representative of a type of well-off person who has made up his mind that both sides are bad and that’s why I don’t pay attention to politics and have no interest in specific information that would complicate that world view. You’re saying the Dem messaging sucks because it won’t get traction with his type. But nothing would. The view that both sides are equally bad (so leave me alone) is part of the identity of such people.