Cite? How do you know this?
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Can you expand what you want cited exactly? Like what would be supporting data for you?
Also wookie is right.
I wish that âget the vaccine so you and people you interact with wonât get sick or dieâ was enough persuasion for most people. It clearly isnât in many regions.
Iâd agree with you on the need to stop our lives if there was an end in sight. Do you think in a year or two we will be over this? Iâm not sure. There is absolutely zero appetite for another year of staying at home. Itâs absolutely not happening in many places and is a nonstarter.
And again, when we have plenty of proof that events among the vaccinated are safe, I donât see any reason to outlaw them because people indoctrinated by Facebook wonât get the vaccine tomorrow or a year from now.
Lollapalooza was fine. The WSOP will be fine. Events like Sturgis are not.
The mask mandate was only lifted here for like 10 days or so, when we had our first day of over 100 cases in a few weeks. That might have been a Monday reporting for the whole weekend though, not going to spend 5 minutes looking that up. Been steady around ~40 for our 1mm pop.
Can you quantify âso manyâ for me? Perhaps as a percentage?
JT - I honestly have no idea what youâre trying to say, but some quantification would be helpful as well.
The simple truth here is that the unvaccinated are, by far, the drivers of the current surge. Everything else is orders of magnitude less.
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Iâm with you more than not JT, but your views seem to be more of âin a perfect worldâ view.
I just want to be realistic with how everything is in certain places and will be going forward for the foreseeable future. It wonât be over anytime soon. My extended family are all anti vaxxers. Xmas is not going to be a thing. My cousins just chartered a private jet to Florida because they canât fly air Canada or whatever. Iâve cut off friends for posting Tucker Carlson shit, weâve cut off family for conspiracy bullshit, just let me see a mediocre marvel movie where Iâm never within 15 feet of anyone else.
Do you think covid has to be eradicated before vaccinated people are allowed to go back to living a normal life, or what is your standard?
Oh.
Thatâs obviously wrong. Biggest areas of the current surge didnât even have those things in the first place. Florida, MS, and on and on never had those things. Could you make the case that it hurt? Sure. But thatâs not what you said. Vaccination rates are perhaps only rivaled by percentage voting for Trump in our current situation otoh
Iâd be interested in hearing anyoneâs opinion on this.
@JohnnyTruant I will do the necessary disclaimer that I get your overall point. I just donât get the ivermectin mess. CV wrote how the medication, if taking according to the recommended dosage and along with vaccination and all other safety measures is probably useless but also harmless.
But it isnât taken in the recommended dosage or use, it doesnât go along with vaccination and definitely not with other health and safety protocols.
Ignoring that context is weird, because we are all witnessing it together and no one is even attempting to hide it. So I get the pushback on his post. He made a pretty useless point in the actual context in which Ivermectin is being discussed, marketed and used.
So yeah, CV post was âeasy to understandâ, but it was also very easy to understand why it was a bad one.
(edit - Iâm sure everything I wrote was already said in the thread but Iâm special so i should say it again)
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But like, itâs not like that everywhere! Again, where I live (Winnipeg, pop ~750k), there were 11 cases today. Mask mandate indoors, high vaccination rates. About another 30 cases in rural, non city areas. For the most part, our rural areas have done very poorly with vaccination rates in the ~25% range or lower. Iâm sure cases will rise as school starts this week here. I imagine in the USA that has contributed to the spread in areas with higher vaccination rates.
Iâve stopped paying attention to how the USA is doing at large really, I feel for you guys in places that just canât get a handle on it. But this is going to be a thing for quite a lot longer imo.
A lot of the defending of Chris is just because his main antagonist was CN. Even despite other healthcare workers itt saying exactly what CN did, it became a Ikes vs the people who donât like Ikes battle.
Itâs a shame that a lot more unvaxxed people are going to die due to their own selfishness and ignorance.
It doesnât mean vaxxed people should put their lives on hold any further.
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This is not a direct answer to Wookieâs questions, but we should keep in mind that local conditions, including vaccination uptake, mask use, and transmission rates, vary widely. As a result, the risk posed by engaging in a given activityâboth to yourself and to othersâwill differ from person to person with these circumstances. An activity that passes some sort of cost-benefit test for poster A may not pass the same test for poster B.
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I would like a cite for his statement, such as data that somehow supports vaccinated people not causing covid spread. We could quibble about what âoverwhelminglyâ means, but I interpret that to mean that he is definitively stating that the recent wave is almost entirely due to unvaxxed people, and that vaxxed people cause extremely little to no spread. I do not believe that to be factually supported. It might be an okay hypothesis or educated guess, but I am not aware of any evidence factually demonstrating it. Please correct me if this is wrong.
Since you agree with his statement, can you cite evidence for it?
As an example, if there was good random testing of a subset of the population, with data on vaxxed vs unvaxxed asymptomatic and mildly symptomatic cases, then such a claim might be supportable or not. I am not aware of such data. Perhaps there are other types of data that could show this as well, feel free to point out any that you think do so.
Again, how do you know this? How do you know the rate at which vaxxed asymptomatic and mildly symptomatic cases are contracting and spreading?
This is more of an overall observation not directed at anyone in specific, but the obvious connection between RWNJ and anti-vax in the US isnât necessarily a universal truth. Obviously my only case study is Israel, but in this instance itâs a pretty good one with it being in the center of vaxxing. The main group objecting vax and health protocols are from the âleftâ side and the leading voices are the same ones that led the civil fight against Netanyahu.
There is a mixture of reasons for that. Netanyahuâs cult status was important as he pushed harder for vaccinations than anyone. âDisbelief in the establishmentâ is also not an exclusively rwnj trait. Also Facebook is still stupidly popular in Israel among all ages.
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This does not support your original assertion.
This is why I asked you what youâd be willing to accept as a citation. Because we donât keep track of, afaict, vaccination status with each test.
We can go about this in several ways:
- We can show how vaccination rates are very correlated with cases
- We can show data showing the vaccines still work very well
- We can show how vaccination rates are very correlated with hospitalization, despite the vaccinated being far sicker and older than the unvaccinated
- We can make a basic germ theory argument
Iâm sure thereâs other ways, but the overwhelming evidence is one way. I just donât want to waste everyoneâs time if youâre only willing to accept direct measurement.
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Man, I dunno, it seems like the drama was settling down and then it flared up with this dewormer stuff. Can everyone just step back a take a breath or something? I include myself in this.
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And correlation is not causation JT. Notably, US cases follow a similar pattern despite huge parts of the country never having any such mandates ever. Canada is also having a fraction of the cases the US as well. There simply is not compelling evidence for your claims about mask and indoor space usage.
The evidence against your assertion is that mask mandates were dropped at very different times in different places, but things got bad at very close to the same time in most places. If mask mandates were the driving factor, we would expect outbreaks shortly after each was lifted. Instead, we see outbreaks shortly after the arrival of the much more contagious delta variant, suggesting it played a more dominant role.
JT bud that isnât contradictory at all and in fact the obvious point Iâm making is that itâs not the gold standard, but still the evidence is compelling, Get some rest indeed.