(mod note: this thread was extracted and is largely a derail full of, shall we say, contrarian takes. enter at your own risk)
I’ll agree with you that calling them “enemy of the people” is over the top and should be avoided. But there is a very real problem in this country with media, with all media, and it’s been exposed by Trump. Not by his calling them out; but rather by his mere existence and, in turn, by how they collectively have chosen to cover him.
Simply put, they have tried way too hard to cling to old journalistic standards that simply do not work when trying to cover a demagogue. Not only do they not work, they’ve in fact proven to be very harmful to the country. We saw these debates at the beginning of his administration back in 2017 by Columbia Journalism Review eggheads. How do you cover a President who lies constantly? How do you call a lie a “lie” when that very word is verboten in journalism? Etc.
And therein lies the problem. WHY THE HELL CAN’T “GOOD JOURNALISM” CALL A LIE A LIE??? It makes no sense to the average reader. The guy pumps out dozens of verifiable lies a day and, rather than simply calling them what they are (lies!), our MSM is twisting themselves into pretzel knots trying to Do Good Journalism and be Fair and Balanced. This results oftentimes in the exact opposite of what they claim they are attempting to provide (“good journalism”) and instead leaves us with a lying demagogue whom they’ve basically let off the hook because they’re petrified of being accused of “bias.” Meanwhile the liar keeps on lying and, joke’s on them, they get accused of bias anyway! Now, does this dereliction of journalistic duty make them “enemies of the people?” I suppose not…but I can certainly understand the fking sentiment.
A recent example from just the other day that I heard: NPR was reporting on vote-by-mail and some court case (I forget where but it’s not important) that was challenging how long after the election that mailed ballots could be counted. The reporter ended her report with “…while critics say that mail-in voting leads to rampant voter fraud.” And that was it, on to the next story! Never mind that there is NO evidence of this fraud! She didn’t bother to point out that this was partisan bullshit made up from whole cloth by Trump and his supporters. She just had to balance the story out and not appear biased, no matter what. I almost drove off the goddamned road. That’s journalistic malpractice disguised as fair and balanced coverage.
(Also this entire sub thread should probably be moved fwiw)
The reason why non-opinion journalists shouldn’t say that a public figure is lying is because it puts them on a side against that figure. If they present themselves as objective then they should be objective. They can report what the figure said, report what the actual facts are and let the readers draw their own conclusions. But if they present themselves as editorial journalists then of course they don’t have to try to be objective.
I understand what you are saying here. You’re giving the reason they have always given for not using That Word. But the problem with not using That Word is now apparent: when you fail to call out an untruth for what it is, you run the risk of truth becoming relative, of facts becoming fungible. I don’t know if Trump knows this and has used it to his advantage, or if it has merely been a happy accident. But I do know that every time he is not called out by MSM for verifiable lies, it basically says to everyone reading/watching that, hey, maybe just maybe he’s not lying.
If it is a verifiable lie, why does that need to be explicitly stated in the piece? People can sort it out for themselves. If you’re into that sort of thing go to those dumb fact check guys and see how many Pinocchios the statement in question was awarded.
Actually, those fact check guys kind of make my point. They are intrinsically editorial in nature but they’re passing themselves off as almost straight news guys. (insert Daniel Dale poofy dog joke). Even if they’re scrupulously honest and balanced about how they treat each statement (lol), there is a bias in which statements they even choose to review. Remember those bullshit Bernie Sanders fact check pieces? Did Mayo Pete or Biden get the same treatment? Of course not.
Opinion journalists call Trump out for lying all the damn time. Turn on MSNBC or CNN and you’ll see Maddow or Fredo or whoever doing it. Which is fine. Everyone knows that Maddow and Fredo are opinion journalists (I mean Fredo might not know it but whatever).
And furthermore, reporting Trump’s false statement and in the same piece reporting what the actual facts are IS calling out the untruth. It’s not loudly trumpeting it in the headline TRUMP LIES but any attentive reader will be able to see the disconnect between what Trump said and what the truth is.